Return-path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS, T_DKIM_INVALID,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:53:56 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([192.168.123.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PTdYM-0004Be-4V; Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:53:10 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PTdXR-0004BY-CF for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:52:13 -0800 Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PTdXL-0004BP-Nv for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:52:13 -0800 Received: by fxm5 with SMTP id 5so796223fxm.11 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:52:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=1C6NdJB1RLkUuN+HHjsyCJ1rVReFRTRX35pPHhTIMq4=; b=NPHI60dsD8NjReW9vU+4fECcBKHg6WQ7jI5luEn0Wk8QKNWamp3tXuNht+j0gWgjEO /WOaf9ZHxDFzUKGvuTp4jVz56sdDXi425BSsdbXiFA7juV80pGH6mCsUICFJ5wIFrjUk BjuDva3UFaFX/blNSBV6Q4ucCl+TNb3EZ61OI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=TkbvQxNaB+w+zKK/jd7H3I6+hG+SyCEhm6UiP5t0jc/69ul85BwOuQqaDfRrujP4/O KtPvKtsVqzJkALJ7cVOXUhDWoV2obwhxY2QjxOX0Gpj6wqnwGhhTL+WEOgLx+Z/oTWMx wPbtNBqX7qL/tKi95/tvuxz0+3YmjQSg+cm1U= Received: by 10.223.112.1 with SMTP id u1mr1305119fap.109.1292604721461; Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:52:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.66.220 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:51:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20101217161949.GI32499@alice.local> References: <20101217161949.GI32499@alice.local> From: Oren Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 11:51:41 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: defining "debug" To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a4e541fa4904979dfda8 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: get.oren@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 6077 Lines: 162 --001636c5a4e541fa4904979dfda8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 related question-- when I { troci }, i think of it as an effort/attempt at something, whereas when i think of "trying something out" i.e. giving a car a test drive, or running a program to see some output, i see that as something more like { cipra } or pajni or jarco, I'm verifying some parameter that's in question, ex. { mi troci lonu sazri lo karce } I'm trying to drive a car, as in I'm attempting/making an effort to attain driving a car. { mi cipra lo spofu lo karce } ? I'm trying out the car, as in I'm taking a car for a test drive to see if/how it's broken. (I probably said those wrong) So maybe troci isn't the right thing to integrate into "debugging"? How about { cipra cikre } for test-fix? On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:19, .alyn.post. wrote: > On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:43:01AM -0500, Luke Bergen wrote: > > But again it's sampla specific. Maybe cfisisku is a more generic word > than > > any one word that we have in english. Maybe it's gloss is just "fault > > find". > > > > One of my biggest pet peeves with the apparent process for defining > lujvo > > in the community is this mindset of "ok what would the english gloss > for > > that be? Can't think of one? Ok, must be a bad word. Let's shoehorn he > > definition into something else so we can have a nice english gloss. > > > > I propose: cfisisku = lo sisku cu sisku lo cfalu lo te sisku > > > > However you want to define that in english is fine with me. > > .i ki'a zo cfalu .i ma valsi > .i .uinai mi na djica lo nu glico tamgau > .i mi retsku je cipcta > .i mi na ca djica lo pa nu danfu .i lo mi ba danfu cu balvi > .i e'o ko kucli > > Triggering pet peeve was most certainly not my intend, I did not > perceive that as happening here and I'm very sorry to have created > that impression. I'm interested in exploring this definition space > and asking questions, in order to best understand it before providing > answers. I'm most certainly in agreement with you that we do not > need English concepts for Lojbanic words. I did not intend my > asking for one to imply that there needed to be a singtle word--I'm > very (very) new at defining Lojban words, and I'm more than happy to > have guidance. > > Thank you for your suggestion for cfisisku. > > .i mu'o mi'e .alyn. > -- > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > > > > -- Oren Robinson (315) 569-2888 102 Morrison Ave Somerville, MA 02144 --001636c5a4e541fa4904979dfda8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
related question--

when I { troci }, i = think of it as an effort/attempt at something, whereas when i think of &quo= t;trying something out" i.e. giving a car a test drive, or running a p= rogram to see some output, i see that as something more like { cipra } or p= ajni or jarco, I'm verifying some parameter that's in question,

ex.
{ mi troci lonu sazri lo karce }
I'= ;m trying to drive a car, as in
I'm attempting/making an effo= rt to attain driving a car.

{ mi cipra lo spofu lo= karce } ?
I'm trying out the car, as in
I'm taking a car for a= test drive to see if/how it's broken.

(I prob= ably said those wrong)

So maybe troci isn't th= e right thing to integrate into "debugging"? How about { cipra ci= kre } for test-fix?

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:1= 9, .alyn.post. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:43:01AM -0500,= Luke Bergen wrote:
> =A0 =A0But again it's sampla specific. Maybe cfisisku is a more ge= neric word than
> =A0 =A0any one word that we have in english. Maybe it's gloss is j= ust "fault
> =A0 =A0find".
>
> =A0 =A0One of my biggest pet peeves with the apparent process for defi= ning lujvo
> =A0 =A0in the community is this mindset of "ok what would the eng= lish gloss for
> =A0 =A0that be? Can't think of one? Ok, must be a bad word. Let= 9;s shoehorn he
> =A0 =A0definition into something else so we can have a nice english gl= oss.
>
> =A0 =A0I propose: cfisisku =3D lo sisku cu sisku lo cfalu lo te sisku<= br> >
> =A0 =A0However you want to define that in english is fine with me.

.i ki'a zo cfalu .i ma valsi
.i .uinai mi na djica lo nu glico tamgau
.i mi retsku je cipcta
.i mi na ca djica lo pa nu danfu .i lo mi ba danfu cu balvi
.i e'o ko kucli

Triggering pet peeve was most certainly not my intend, I did not
perceive that as happening here and I'm very sorry to have created
that impression. =A0I'm interested in exploring this definition space and asking questions, in order to best understand it before providing
answers. =A0I'm most certainly in agreement with you that we do not
need English concepts for Lojbanic words. =A0I did not intend my
asking for one to imply that there needed to be a singtle word--I'm
very (very) new at defining Lojban words, and I'm more than happy to have guidance.

Thank you for your suggestion for cfisisku.

.i mu'o mi'e .alyn.
--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi






--
Oren Robinson
(315) 569-2888
102 Morrison Ave
Somerville, MA 02144

--001636c5a4e541fa4904979dfda8--