Received: from mail-ey0-f189.google.com ([209.85.215.189]:58504) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SqQxh-0002Bu-Ff for lbck-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:26 -0700 Received: by eaad14 with SMTP id d14sf3048189eaa.16 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=lrMtRXvhNnTzbCJEQyFfE5tkVBgQyMM2tjIcvuc8/Ig=; b=3BsL1RGWeFkIvhSMEQCW6ns0YvCRM931XX9mFtAsRlrfWsFs26kcTw78qMWTBfR3Qy kTpwo+lFxzO8UxfhXRmoutMitfHMBm1Ufaprzybhs1cfpx0lnvzlsmR6av3y3uskDM3k /p1DC/5pWwG4s8e846i+ZrR0hrp1p4422CPB8= Received: by 10.180.84.230 with SMTP id c6mr421110wiz.2.1342366934328; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.143.147 with SMTP id l19ls5123496wej.4.gmail; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.96.42 with SMTP id dp10mr808934wib.2.1342366933994; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.96.42 with SMTP id dp10mr808933wib.2.1342366933978; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-f176.google.com (mail-we0-f176.google.com [74.125.82.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i17si1904288wiw.0.2012.07.15.08.42.13 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ali.sajid.imami@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.176; Received: by weyu3 with SMTP id u3so3728985wey.21 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.217.1.8 with SMTP id m8mr4299604wes.118.1342366933773; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.170.196 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:42:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201207150949.05250.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <0f1c1c48-248f-47e2-90ff-4d10a7a7deab@googlegroups.com> <61bc20b4-06b3-45a4-baca-2fd7f84441ba@googlegroups.com> <201207150949.05250.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 20:42:13 +0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What goes on the first test? From: Ali Sajid Imami To: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: ali.sajid.imami@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ali.sajid.imami@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ali.sajid.imami@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-lbck+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 186919887485 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf301e2e553eee8e04c4e02825 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --20cf301e2e553eee8e04c4e02825 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Clarifying the Regular Language Ability test vs. Standardized Language Proficiency test: I take the normal class tests for English as the former, while a test like IELTS or TOEFL is the latter. I see your scales, but how would you be integrating them into a testing system? On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Sunday 15 July 2012 03:31:29 banseljaj wrote: > > Well, here raises the question that what sort of test is it? If it is a > > regular language ability test, then we can do this. > > However if this is a standardized language proficiency test, then we need > > to be careful. > > Could you explain the difference? > > > Since I believe in the latter, I propose the following. > > > > The Test has 4 Proficiency Levels. > > Level 1: > > > > - The person knows the basic structure of a lojban utterance. > > - Understands what is meant by bridi, selbri, brivla, tanru. > > - Is able to make simple tanru. > > - Knows the basic pro-sumti: mi, do. > > - Knows basic and group articles: lo, loi, le, ei, la. > > - Understands the place structure and tagging. > > - Understands implicit and explicit {zo'e}. > > - Can count up to ten. > > > > Level 2: > > > > - The person understands simple abstractions. > > - The person understands SE. > > - The person can use COI and UI. > > - Understands Scalar Negation. > > - Can elide terminators. > > - and can use {noi} and {poi} > > > > I still need to come up with Levels 3 and 4, but I am not that proficient > > to remember the more advanced topics. This is pretty consistent with what > > wave lessons have. > > Here are the scales I came up with last year: > > lujvo scale: > 0. Does not require knowledge of lujvo. > 1. Requires recognizing a word as a valid lujvo. > 2. Requires decomposing a lujvo into its components or recognizing that two > forms of a lujvo are the same word. > 3. Requires knowing the meaning of a defined lujvo. > > fu'ivla type scale: > 0. Does not require knowledge of fu'ivla. > 1. Requires knowledge of type-1 fu'ivla. > 2. Requires knowledge of type-2 fu'ivla. > 3. Requires knowledge of type-3 fu'ivla. > 4. Requires knowledge of type-4 fu'ivla. > > fu'ivla scale: > 0. Does not require knowledge of fu'ivla. > 1. Requires recognizing a valid fu'ivla. (Ignore types 1 and 2; > recognizing a > valid type-2 is considered recognizing a cmevla.) > 2. Requires figuring out the meaning of a fu'ivla from context. > 3. Requires knowing the meaning of a defined fu'ivla. > > cmene scale: > 0. Does not require knowledge of cmene. > 1. Requires recognizing a valid cmevla. (A selbri preceded by "la" doesn't > count here; it's a grammatical construct.) > 2. Requires figuring out the meaning of a cmene from context. > 3. Requires knowing the meaning of a defined cmene. > > The other scales, which haven't been defined yet, are for gismu, cmavo, and > grammar. I haven't been following the wave lessons, but it looks reasonable > to use them to define scales for cmavo and grammar. Can you write the > scales > for cmavo and grammar? The one for cmavo will be long, as every cmavo or > its > selma'o has to be in some level. > > Pierre > > > -- > loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji > -- Regards, Ali Sajid Imami President, Pakistan Children and Youth Forum --20cf301e2e553eee8e04c4e02825 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Clarifying the Regular Language Ability test vs. Standardized Language Prof= iciency test: I take the normal class tests for English as the former, whil= e a test like IELTS or TOEFL is the latter.

I see your s= cales, but how would you be integrating them into a testing system?


On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Pi= erre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Sunday 15 July 2012 03:31:29 banseljaj wrote:
> Well, here raises the question that what sort of test is it? If it is = a
> regular language ability test, then we can do this.
> However if this is a standardized language proficiency test, then we n= eed
> to be careful.

Could you explain the difference?

> Since I believe in the latter, I propose the following.
>
> The Test has 4 Proficiency Levels.
> Level 1:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- The person knows the basic structure of a lojban = utterance.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Understands what is meant by bridi, selbri, brivla, tan= ru.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Is able to make simple tanru.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Knows the basic pro-sumti: mi, do.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Knows basic and group articles: lo, loi, le, ei, la. > =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Understands the place structure and tagging.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Understands implicit and explicit {zo'e}.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Can count up to ten.
>
> Level 2:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- The person understands simple abstractions.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- The person understands SE.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- The person can use COI and UI.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Understands Scalar Negation.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Can elide terminators.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- and can use {noi} and {poi}
>
> I still need to come up with Levels 3 and 4, but I am not that profici= ent
> to remember the more advanced topics. This is pretty consistent with w= hat
> wave lessons have.

Here are the scales I came up with last year:

lujvo scale:
0. Does not require knowledge of lujvo.
1. Requires recognizing a word as a valid lujvo.
2. Requires decomposing a lujvo into its components or recognizing that two=
forms of a lujvo are the same word.
3. Requires knowing the meaning of a defined lujvo.

fu'ivla type scale:
0. Does not require knowledge of fu'ivla.
1. Requires knowledge of type-1 fu'ivla.
2. Requires knowledge of type-2 fu'ivla.
3. Requires knowledge of type-3 fu'ivla.
4. Requires knowledge of type-4 fu'ivla.

fu'ivla scale:
0. Does not require knowledge of fu'ivla.
1. Requires recognizing a valid fu'ivla. (Ignore types 1 and 2; recogni= zing a
valid type-2 is considered recognizing a cmevla.)
2. Requires figuring out the meaning of a fu'ivla from context.
3. Requires knowing the meaning of a defined fu'ivla.

cmene scale:
0. Does not require knowledge of cmene.
1. Requires recognizing a valid cmevla. (A selbri preceded by "la"= ; doesn't
count here; it's a grammatical construct.)
2. Requires figuring out the meaning of a cmene from context.
3. Requires knowing the meaning of a defined cmene.

The other scales, which haven't been defined yet, are for gismu, cmavo,= and
grammar. I haven't been following the wave lessons, but it looks reason= able
to use them to define scales for cmavo and grammar. Can you write the scale= s
for cmavo and grammar? The one for cmavo will be long, as every cmavo or it= s
selma'o has to be in some level.

Pierre


--
loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji



-- Regards,
Ali Sajid Imami
President,
Pakistan Chil= dren and Youth Forum

--20cf301e2e553eee8e04c4e02825--