From grbounce-1SmKRQUAAADb_R2oRU4VvVPYnC2H_cF3=phma=phma.optus.nu@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 3 17:00:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: phma@localhost Delivered-To: phma@localhost Received: from chausie.ixazon.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA0DE299 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: phma@phma.optus.nu Received: from 192.168.7.2 [192.168.7.2] by chausie.ixazon.lan with IMAP (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-px0-f161.google.com (mail-px0-f161.google.com [209.85.216.161]) by ixazon.dynip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 819B3CE742 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pxi33 with SMTP id 33so376699pxi.11 for ; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Dkim-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:x-sender:x-apparently-to :received:received:received:received-spf:received:dkim-signature :domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:reply-to:sender :precedence:x-google-loop:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-unsubscribe:x-beenthere-env:x-beenthere; bh=8o9mOwZGPjN08DVHcbXMcahPJPs0v3xv+jzPUHrErEY=; b=p4oZnKCyRS0XWaJUqJGjMOa7WRiwTRgJgVervNzl5kQjMbBSP75P9xropRczNfiChc eBBl+dhRtgUazWw6sNcEEjP6bYL0ETV7jyUly+67wJKqOKk8Rs5Mqy5h4lM+TX4RM0dI UvILPN31N+hE09GGvL1PDWCVu2E7e3hOSlrPw= Domainkey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-sender:x-apparently-to:received-spf:authentication-results :dkim-signature:domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:reply-to :sender:precedence:x-google-loop:mailing-list:list-id:list-post :list-help:list-unsubscribe:x-beenthere-env:x-beenthere; b=MHurqAi2mwlJLfTbqThTERI03+ywXuuQSxbMHeY4LKoAx1F7hRnYJYnj7vhM4nqm69 /6cwC4SMviF0kJSeG+UU0pO3aEKhE8G5oylY3pIVA4SrwGpKWrRc2psYoWe1vc2djOVn Stq0x9e+dIzeUhz6IW1+U7GYI6IwJSlqNrpLI= Received: by 10.220.4.30 with SMTP id 30mr9623vcp.17.1252011469421; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.230.28.96 with SMTP id l32gr16vbc.0; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:57:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.75.20 with SMTP id x20mr7052692yba.23.1252011468144; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.75.20 with SMTP id x20mr7052684yba.23.1252011467347; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f197.google.com (mail-yx0-f197.google.com [209.85.210.197]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si46070ywh.4.2009.09.03.13.57.46; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of matt.mattarn@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.197 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.197; Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of matt.mattarn@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.197 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=matt.mattarn@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Received: by mail-yx0-f197.google.com with SMTP id 35so3414872yxe.2 for ; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Dkim-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=61zl2LWqpESiFBZCxfbf3j26EFPGRp15yaNkWe9cbtY=; b=TQ2nWzY2wLpB0x54X9eMck/izpNt6P2qa/KkjKkVUnct1dG0hh2gkzeE6UfCJBGlZ2 VoLEv8ySUJLEqor0WexF72iUFMB39owQ95FdFYIJukOc8QUFpAyhaGdLqg69maTQ+pbN GV5/iZecAFfKmEgiF/o1H3Yit/kmx8QveoKCU= Domainkey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=FFKCfzw6vGQn8Wwt5kYIqcK0VYh+7OoRHjcb6aLEx6nAoj/acrY4ytMlF9gp/jYsY3 pNwgYlDZYDY3e/MAAzCX5RuDmN7K77MmBebCSknVQezjagfuN3rFzDoqA70FAuESvu67 bWf4TBb8wsh5Efhp22anZz2U51vdQGcsK04UE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.240.15 with SMTP id n15mr16931889ybh.212.1252011464669; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:57:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <925d17560909031101s2c9e6a09y1a874417aedd65e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <925d17560909030537u5261074ar2bdd3dd392aaffbb@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560909031101s2c9e6a09y1a874417aedd65e1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:57:44 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How many levels From: Matt Arnold To: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Reply-To: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com Sender: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com Precedence: bulk X-Google-Loop: groups Mailing-List: list lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-lbck+owner@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: , X-Beenthere-Env: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com X-Beenthere: lojban-lbck@googlegroups.com > I don't think the name is all that important, You'd be surprised, actually. > I think one should be free to start at whatever level one chooses, or > skip levels. If someone feels they can pass the level 500, they should > not be forced to pass the level 100 first if they don't want to. Or do > you want people who already know that a level 100 will be trivial for > them to have to take it anyway? Yes. How can we certify advanced Lojbanists on easy material if we haven't tested them on easy material? I mean, if you want to have an advanced certification but lack an elementary certification, I suppose you can, but that never occurred to me. Are you talking about us granting an "honorary" certification of some kind? That's hardly fair. We should avoid a lot of repetition in the tests. My level one thousand certification should not have to repeat level 100 remedial material to make sure that I know that range of the vocabulary as well. I take the level 100 test first, and that's how we officially certify that I know the material. Then I qualify to take the next one, then the next. Think of it this way: In other words, it's one long test that gets harder and harder until you can't do it any more, then you know your level. Just like any game. > I think we should count cmavo and gismu separately, because of the 100 > most frequent words only 18 are gismu and the rest are cmavo. I don't > think a test based on that makes a lot of sense. Maybe a breakdown > like 40 cmavo - 60 gismu would make more sense. Yeah, I strongly agree. In fact, I'd agree to 30 cmavo - 70 gismu. Either way, this formula should gradually invert around the 500th-word mark. When you are really handy with the forty most common cmavo and the sixty most common gismu, you know a level important enough that, if you are certified in it, that says something very important to distinguish you from those who have just read "What Is Lojban". -Eppcott