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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 23:12:19 +0300
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2015-05-02 21:13 GMT+03:00 Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>:

> On 4/20/2015 6:08 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG wrote:
>
>> The annual meeting finally being ended, I call to order the New LLG
>> Board of Directors for its meeting.  I am not sure all the new members
>> have been added to the list, and the old members deleted, so I ask those
>> receiving this message please indicate their presence at the meeting.
>>
>> When all Board members are present, we will elect new officers for LLG.
>>
>
> Timo has responded and said that he will not be present, so I guess we
> should move on to officer elections.
>
> I first recognize that Riley Martinez-Lynch (mukti) has expressed interest
> in becoming Secretary/Treasurer, that Robin has provided him with
> transition information for the job, and that he has been in fact doing the
> job since roughly the start of the year, authorized by Robin, and more
> recently by me.
>
> Candidates for office and/or nominators of others for office should look
> at the Bylaw descriptions for each office.  This may be non-trivial because
> the new LLG web page doesn't have any obvious link to the organization and
> Bylaws, though I eventually found both.
>

Ehm, that needs some further polishing. If they are not easy to find then
they more links need to be put. The whole tree of LLG pages needs to be
created. All of LLG pages need to be specially marked. I'm willing to do so
once I know what are those pages. The old wiki still exists at
tiki.lojban.org for convenience purposes. After it's shut down we will
still be able to use archive.org to view the old wiki.


> We have three offices to fill, President, Vice President, and
> Secretary/Treasurer.  Current officers and members are on this page
> http://mw.lojban.org/papri/LLG_Members
> but the list may be outdated (Riley please check and update as
> appropriate).
>
> Robin Powell has de facto resigned as Secretary/Treasurer, per the above,
> and I believe as member as well.  Veijo Vilva has resigned as Vice
> President due to health reasons.
>
> Becuase of Riley's status, let's get his position clarified first.
>
> Are there any other volunteer candidates or nominations for
> Secretary/Treasurer?  I will allow until end-of-day Sunday for responses on
> this.
>
> President and Vice President need a little more consideration.  I am a
> little reluctant to continue as President.  As I am sure everyone has
> noticed, zo'o, I have been at best inconsistent in my timeliness in running
> meetings.  I've also been unable to keep up my intended commitment to show
> up on IRC every Sunday noonish (EDT).  Otherwise, I have probably been only
> minimally adequate in the leadership department, but I remain a major
> source of "institutional memory", which is important this year when most of
> the Board and at least 2 officer positions have turned over.
>

This needs further clarification like what citizenship (what city etc.) is
needed for becoming President. If no one else is from Virginia I think
maybe something needs to be changed to allow people from other states to
become presidents (although it'd be probably important to still limit to
the USA).


> I am willing to serve one more year as President, or as Vice President if
> the Board prefers.  But I strongly desire that at least one person step
> forward as now-or-future President to fill the other position.  If I am
> President, I will be calling on this person as VP to exercise several
> leadership activities in the coming year, including regular participation
> in IRC and reporting to the Board on what the community wants LLG to do.
>
> Here is my statement of "vision".  The coming year will hopefully include
> the publication of the 1.1 edition of CLL through Lightning Source, and I'd
> like to see at least a start on producing a similarly updated edition of
> Nick Nicholas and Robin Turner's Lojban textbook, and perhaps an update to
> the Introduction to Lojban book already published through Lightning
> Source.  If we get all that done, a printed English/Lojban dictionary would
> finally finish what I committed to some 25 years ago but still have not
> delivered.


In what format do you have this English-Lojban dictionary as of now?


>   Only when we can point to a published and available grammar, textbook,
> and dictionary do I see us as capable of truly promoting the language
> beyond the sort of word-of-mouth efforts that have sufficed for the last 25
> years.  LLG has somewhere in the neighborhood of US$20K, some of which
> needs to be spent on the above publications, and we may need to break down
> and pay some people to do some of the work, either per Ali's proposal for a
> paid Project Manager or for people to actually get in and produce the page
> markups needed to publish the other books (possibly Robin Powell might be
> willing to consult on *how* to do this, but we should not be expecting him
> to be willing to actually do the work).
>

I strongly suggest that if this process of updating core textbooks is out
of schedule then money needs to be spent on boosting this activity.
Textbooks are priority No. 1 imo. And CLL is priority No. 1.0.0.1.

I will gather the information of what is the status of CLL 1.1 now on
github and report later unless someone else can.


>
> We then need to decide HOW to promote the language in a larger way than
> has been done so far.  This might involve spending a larger amount of money
> than we have, in which case we need to think about fundraising. Our status
> as a non-profit corporation (for which, in the US at least, donations
> result in tax benefits) should make fundraising easier.  There are also
> newer fundraising techniques like crowd-funding that could work.
>

My opinion that updating textbooks although being vitally important for
Lojban to continue exist as a single entity is nevertheless isn't enough
for promoting it.
Let's face it: even linguists and known conlangers who own paper copies of
CLL don't understand most of what is said in this book. Logicians aren't in
great number on this planet.
The rest of the planet is even worse.

To say in short my plan is:
1. Write a direct teaching method book aimed at ordinary people, something
like "English through pictures <http://englishthroughpictures.com/>"
written by Richards in 1950. I haven't seen any better situation-based
approach than this book although i've read a lot of modern books trying to
teach both natlangs and Esperanto. All of them are worse than the Richard's
one because they step back to "dictionary-based encyclopaedic approach".

If we don't have anyone to draw pictures then let's hire someone even if
the person is one of us!

2. Produce more videos teaching the language.
3. Update basic translations and original Lojban stories and publish them.

I already put some of my thoughts into http://mw.lojban.org/papri/ToDo

There are other projects that are in active development:
A. A textbook using terminology of the student and that intensively uses
examples of usage in explanations. I'm working
<http://mw.lojban.org/papri/The_Crash_Course_(a_draft)> on it but it still
has plenty of things to fix. Again something could be done to boost its
development but its not high priority compared to CLL.
B. Improve live database of Lojban sentences on tatoeba.org so that we have
a good search engines for quickly answering questions like "How to say
"What is the weather today"? " in Lojban. For no single language on
tatoeba.org proofreading of sentences has ever been done. The project will
start in a few days. The improved output will be available here:
http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/i/muplis/index.html for now it's
not proofread. No intervention is required for this project to complete.

Those are only some required actions to be ready to start promoting Lojban.
Without having most of them finished advertising Lojban can only be
damaging.

When we have them finished we can think of more (like using Google Adwords,
advertising Lojban in programmers' conferences and whatever).


>
> In addition to fundraising, a long time ago it was proposed that we could
> approach corporations for equipment donations, which could include new
> server hardware for the website and possibly hardware or software needed
> for specific research activities (such donations are sometimes easier to
> get than cash donations).  Our non-profit status is useful here as well,
> but someone needs to figure out what we need, who could supply it, and then
> communicate with that supplier for the donation.
>

A new server? ;)
I guess this question should be asked  in an open mailing list, not in this
super secret one.


> Beyond publication, there are other tasks that need to be done, including
> a couple of other things that were proposed during the annual meeting, but
> which didn't get a motion or a second and were discussed only minimally.
> I'd like that for the next annual meeting we can have some things to decide
> during the meeting that are ready for action, rather than ideas that few
> have even thought about.   The members list can be used to discuss such
> topics outside the formal meeting.
>
> I don't have the knowhow for many of these activities, and even less have
> the time and energy for them these days.  And I don't seem to have the
> effective leadership skills for the IRC (and Skype) based community that I
> had during the snail-mail and live-Logfest-annual-meeting era. We need a
> President who can LEAD the community, and I am no longer that person.
>
> The one activity I am actually doing is my long-postponed Arabian Nights
> translation.
>

In fact this translation activity maybe eventually more important than
abstract leadership. Voice chats happen naturally without any leadership.


>
> I have a long-delayed LogFlash statistical analysis project that I have
> since forgotten the statistics expertise for.  This was going to provide
> some insight on whether the gismu algorithm actually produced learnable
> words.  I'd like to find someone else who could finally do that analysis.
>

Could you please share your thoughts and the history of this project since
I have no clue how to measure learnability of gismu.


> I'd like to see us produce something more sophisticated in the way of
> communicating activity news between the various Lojban communities.  The
> old Ju'i Lobypli and le lojbo karni publications may no longer be viable
> these days, and perhaps what guskant was proposing in the annual meeting
> could point in a new direction.  But expecially if the community is to
> grow, we need something.
>
> In addition to other things, if I am president and the other person is VP,
> I am going to call on whoever is elected to be an on-call chair for this
> meeting and for the annual meeting - someone I can work with who will keep
> the meetings going when I disappear for a week in the middle of things.
>
> So I can see my serving as a transition leader for another year or so, but
> new person/people needs to step up for the longer term, and at least one
> such person is needed now for LLG office.
>
> So I put my name in for President, being quite willing to change that to
> VP, or even to drop out, if one or more others are willing to step up. I am
> open to other suggestions as well.
>
> I'll allow a couple more days for others to speak up, but will not hold up
> the Secretary/Treasurer election, while this is discussed.
>
>
> lojbab
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> llg-board mailing list
> llg-board@lojban.org
> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2015-05-02 21:13 GMT+03:00 Bob LeChevalier <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:lojbab@lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">lojbab@lojban.org</a>&gt;<=
/span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-st=
yle:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 4/20/2015 6:08 PM, Bob LeCh=
evalier, President and Founder - LLG wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
The annual meeting finally being ended, I call to order the New LLG<br>
Board of Directors for its meeting.=C2=A0 I am not sure all the new members=
<br>
have been added to the list, and the old members deleted, so I ask those<br=
>
receiving this message please indicate their presence at the meeting.<br>
<br>
When all Board members are present, we will elect new officers for LLG.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Timo has responded and said that he will not be present, so I guess we shou=
ld move on to officer elections.<br>
<br>
I first recognize that Riley Martinez-Lynch (mukti) has expressed interest =
in becoming Secretary/Treasurer, that Robin has provided him with transitio=
n information for the job, and that he has been in fact doing the job since=
 roughly the start of the year, authorized by Robin, and more recently by m=
e.<br>
<br>
Candidates for office and/or nominators of others for office should look at=
 the Bylaw descriptions for each office.=C2=A0 This may be non-trivial beca=
use the new LLG web page doesn&#39;t have any obvious link to the organizat=
ion and Bylaws, though I eventually found both.<br></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>Ehm, that needs some further polishing. If they are not easy to fi=
nd then they more links need to be put. The whole tree of LLG pages needs t=
o be created. All of LLG pages need to be specially marked. I&#39;m willing=
 to do so once I know what are those pages. The old wiki still exists at <a=
 href=3D"http://tiki.lojban.org">tiki.lojban.org</a> for convenience purpos=
es. After it&#39;s shut down we will still be able to use <a href=3D"http:/=
/archive.org">archive.org</a> to view the old wiki.</div><div><br></div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
<br>
We have three offices to fill, President, Vice President, and Secretary/Tre=
asurer.=C2=A0 Current officers and members are on this page<br>
<a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org/papri/LLG_Members" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/mw.lojban.org/papri/LLG_Members</a><br>
but the list may be outdated (Riley please check and update as appropriate)=
.<br>
<br>
Robin Powell has de facto resigned as Secretary/Treasurer, per the above, a=
nd I believe as member as well.=C2=A0 Veijo Vilva has resigned as Vice Pres=
ident due to health reasons.<br>
<br>
Becuase of Riley&#39;s status, let&#39;s get his position clarified first.<=
br>
<br>
Are there any other volunteer candidates or nominations for Secretary/Treas=
urer?=C2=A0 I will allow until end-of-day Sunday for responses on this.<br>
<br>
President and Vice President need a little more consideration.=C2=A0 I am a=
 little reluctant to continue as President.=C2=A0 As I am sure everyone has=
 noticed, zo&#39;o, I have been at best inconsistent in my timeliness in ru=
nning meetings.=C2=A0 I&#39;ve also been unable to keep up my intended comm=
itment to show up on IRC every Sunday noonish (EDT).=C2=A0 Otherwise, I hav=
e probably been only minimally adequate in the leadership department, but I=
 remain a major source of &quot;institutional memory&quot;, which is import=
ant this year when most of the Board and at least 2 officer positions have =
turned over.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This needs further clarifi=
cation like what citizenship (what city etc.) is needed for becoming Presid=
ent. If no one else is from Virginia I think maybe something needs to be ch=
anged to allow people from other states to become presidents (although it&#=
39;d be probably important to still limit to the USA).</div><div><br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<br>
I am willing to serve one more year as President, or as Vice President if t=
he Board prefers.=C2=A0 But I strongly desire that at least one person step=
 forward as now-or-future President to fill the other position.=C2=A0 If I =
am President, I will be calling on this person as VP to exercise several le=
adership activities in the coming year, including regular participation in =
IRC and reporting to the Board on what the community wants LLG to do.<br>
<br>
Here is my statement of &quot;vision&quot;.=C2=A0 The coming year will hope=
fully include the publication of the 1.1 edition of CLL through Lightning S=
ource, and I&#39;d like to see at least a start on producing a similarly up=
dated edition of Nick Nicholas and Robin Turner&#39;s Lojban textbook, and =
perhaps an update to the Introduction to Lojban book already published thro=
ugh Lightning Source.=C2=A0 If we get all that done, a printed English/Lojb=
an dictionary would finally finish what I committed to some 25 years ago bu=
t still have not delivered.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>In what format =
do you have this English-Lojban dictionary as of now?</div><div>=C2=A0</div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;=
padding-left:1ex">=C2=A0 Only when we can point to a published and availabl=
e grammar, textbook, and dictionary do I see us as capable of truly promoti=
ng the language beyond the sort of word-of-mouth efforts that have sufficed=
 for the last 25 years.=C2=A0 LLG has somewhere in the neighborhood of US$2=
0K, some of which needs to be spent on the above publications, and we may n=
eed to break down and pay some people to do some of the work, either per Al=
i&#39;s proposal for a paid Project Manager or for people to actually get i=
n and produce the page markups needed to publish the other books (possibly =
Robin Powell might be willing to consult on *how* to do this, but we should=
 not be expecting him to be willing to actually do the work).<br></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>I strongly suggest that if this process of updating =
core textbooks is out of schedule then money needs to be spent on boosting =
this activity.</div><div>Textbooks are priority No. 1 imo. And CLL is prior=
ity No. 1.0.0.1.</div><div><br></div><div>I will gather the information of =
what is the status of CLL 1.1 now on github and report later unless someone=
 else can.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(2=
04,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
We then need to decide HOW to promote the language in a larger way than has=
 been done so far.=C2=A0 This might involve spending a larger amount of mon=
ey than we have, in which case we need to think about fundraising. Our stat=
us as a non-profit corporation (for which, in the US at least, donations re=
sult in tax benefits) should make fundraising easier.=C2=A0 There are also =
newer fundraising techniques like crowd-funding that could work.<br></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>My opinion that updating textbooks although being=
 vitally important for Lojban to continue exist as a single entity is never=
theless isn&#39;t enough for promoting it.</div><div>Let&#39;s face it: eve=
n linguists and known conlangers who own paper copies of CLL don&#39;t unde=
rstand most of what is said in this book. Logicians aren&#39;t in great num=
ber on this planet.</div><div>The rest of the planet is even worse.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>To say in short my plan is:</div><div>1. Write a direct t=
eaching method book aimed at ordinary people, something like &quot;<a href=
=3D"http://englishthroughpictures.com/">English through pictures</a>&quot; =
written by Richards in 1950. I haven&#39;t seen any better situation-based =
approach than this book although i&#39;ve read a lot of modern books trying=
 to teach both natlangs and Esperanto. All of them are worse than the Richa=
rd&#39;s one because they step back to &quot;dictionary-based encyclopaedic=
 approach&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div>If we don&#39;t have anyone to dr=
aw pictures then let&#39;s hire someone even if the person is one of us!</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>2. Produce more videos teaching the language.<br></d=
iv><div>3. Update basic translations and original Lojban stories and publis=
h them.<br><br>I already put some of my thoughts into <a href=3D"http://mw.=
lojban.org/papri/ToDo">http://mw.lojban.org/papri/ToDo</a></div><div><br></=
div><div>There are other projects that are in active development:</div><div=
>A. A textbook using terminology of the student and that intensively uses e=
xamples of usage in explanations. I&#39;m <a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org/p=
apri/The_Crash_Course_(a_draft)">working</a> on it but it still has plenty =
of things to fix. Again something could be done to boost its development bu=
t its not high priority compared to CLL.</div><div>B. Improve live database=
 of Lojban sentences on <a href=3D"http://tatoeba.org">tatoeba.org</a> so t=
hat we have a good search engines for quickly answering questions like &quo=
t;How to say &quot;What is the weather today&quot;? &quot; in Lojban. For n=
o single language on <a href=3D"http://tatoeba.org">tatoeba.org</a> proofre=
ading of sentences has ever been done. The project will start in a few days=
. The improved output will be available here: <a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.o=
rg/extensions/ilmentufa/i/muplis/index.html">http://mw.lojban.org/extension=
s/ilmentufa/i/muplis/index.html</a> for now it&#39;s not proofread. No inte=
rvention is required for this project to complete.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Those are only some required actions to be ready to start promoting Lojban=
.</div><div>Without having most of them finished advertising Lojban can onl=
y be damaging.</div><div><br></div><div>When we have them finished we can t=
hink of more (like using Google Adwords, advertising Lojban in programmers&=
#39; conferences and whatever).</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border=
-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
In addition to fundraising, a long time ago it was proposed that we could a=
pproach corporations for equipment donations, which could include new serve=
r hardware for the website and possibly hardware or software needed for spe=
cific research activities (such donations are sometimes easier to get than =
cash donations).=C2=A0 Our non-profit status is useful here as well, but so=
meone needs to figure out what we need, who could supply it, and then commu=
nicate with that supplier for the donation.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div>A new server? ;)</div><div>I guess this question should be asked =C2=
=A0in an open mailing list, not in this super secret one.</div><div><br></d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Beyond publication, there are other tasks that need to be done, including a=
 couple of other things that were proposed during the annual meeting, but w=
hich didn&#39;t get a motion or a second and were discussed only minimally.=
=C2=A0 I&#39;d like that for the next annual meeting we can have some thing=
s to decide during the meeting that are ready for action, rather than ideas=
 that few have even thought about.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The members list can be used=
 to discuss such topics outside the formal meeting.<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t have the knowhow for many of these activities, and even less ha=
ve the time and energy for them these days.=C2=A0 And I don&#39;t seem to h=
ave the effective leadership skills for the IRC (and Skype) based community=
 that I had during the snail-mail and live-Logfest-annual-meeting era. We n=
eed a President who can LEAD the community, and I am no longer that person.=
<br>
<br>
The one activity I am actually doing is my long-postponed Arabian Nights tr=
anslation.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In fact this translation act=
ivity maybe eventually more important than abstract leadership. Voice chats=
 happen naturally without any leadership.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:=
1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left=
:1ex">
<br>
I have a long-delayed LogFlash statistical analysis project that I have sin=
ce forgotten the statistics expertise for.=C2=A0 This was going to provide =
some insight on whether the gismu algorithm actually produced learnable wor=
ds.=C2=A0 I&#39;d like to find someone else who could finally do that analy=
sis.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Could you please share your though=
ts and the history of this project since I have no clue how to measure lear=
nability of gismu.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb=
(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I&#39;d like to see us produce something more sophisticated in the way of c=
ommunicating activity news between the various Lojban communities.=C2=A0 Th=
e old Ju&#39;i Lobypli and le lojbo karni publications may no longer be via=
ble these days, and perhaps what guskant was proposing in the annual meetin=
g could point in a new direction.=C2=A0 But expecially if the community is =
to grow, we need something.<br>
<br>
In addition to other things, if I am president and the other person is VP, =
I am going to call on whoever is elected to be an on-call chair for this me=
eting and for the annual meeting - someone I can work with who will keep th=
e meetings going when I disappear for a week in the middle of things.<br>
<br>
So I can see my serving as a transition leader for another year or so, but =
new person/people needs to step up for the longer term, and at least one su=
ch person is needed now for LLG office.<br>
<br>
So I put my name in for President, being quite willing to change that to VP=
, or even to drop out, if one or more others are willing to step up. I am o=
pen to other suggestions as well.<br>
<br>
I&#39;ll allow a couple more days for others to speak up, but will not hold=
 up the Secretary/Treasurer election, while this is discussed.<div class=3D=
""><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
lojbab<br>
<br>
<br><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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ank">http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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