Received: from localhost ([::1]:56115 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Ype2X-0004Xe-9Y; Tue, 05 May 2015 07:41:41 -0700 Received: from mail-pd0-f173.google.com ([209.85.192.173]:35368) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Ype2K-0004XT-0S for llg-board@lojban.org; Tue, 05 May 2015 07:41:37 -0700 Received: by pdbqd1 with SMTP id qd1so198269941pdb.2 for ; Tue, 05 May 2015 07:41:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=ZJI3SwKXWrnuNmTvaIYlZncCjVUUZlstmT81woagMoU=; b=MdqrExL5vpNaVLgmQOIyzXlF7YWiIvHk5lLu6zgIfOT2TLifP68MmvEr5VUrbcDxW3 eurd6EQ++004+GIfrzi0J10wsXRF7Q2B3hT2myJ73uKRSoyyEXgBmb+qv/DnMGLWlxId HQ71T8QcKvVfOFlrQCwilM3DH5N5CASGsxwaAqhm5TdCv+889jOlP77m50gP1cec+A8w g0YYQgiAaNTV8cF0ohg+K73jtTCR0g9+0YEd0R4Cc4OOEia8pTWJQErNkgmyHbzx178X xhsptLpwPOpb3eUtbNeAGc5wRiwjhzFyIw5ucbsrQc+9r7+8uFifimr2OOa8KPObdf6P 7MBA== X-Received: by 10.70.33.67 with SMTP id p3mr51945377pdi.126.1430836881688; Tue, 05 May 2015 07:41:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <554513DC.1040404@lojban.org> In-Reply-To: From: Craig Daniel Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 14:41:21 +0000 Message-ID: To: llg-board@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [llg-board] Call to Order, statement of Presence X-BeenThere: llg-board@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-board@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6161760053833077895==" Errors-To: llg-board-bounces@lojban.org --===============6161760053833077895== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bfd0b8e108ea9051556acb9 --047d7bfd0b8e108ea9051556acb9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 6:46 AM And Rosta wrote: > > On 5 May 2015 11:24, "Gleki Arxokuna" wrote: > > > > > So you disagreed that conlangers dont understand CLL. So please name > those who were able to understand CLL and then speak Lojban. > > CLL purports to be a reference grammar. Only exceptionally would a reader > of a reference grammar be able to speak the language as a result of reading > a reference grammar of it, however perspicuous the reference grammar is. It > is normal that readers of even the most perspicuous reference grammar > understand the grammar but are not able to speak the language. > Yup. The fact that muddling your way through trying to treat a refgram as a textbook seems to be a traditional rite of passage among Lojbanists is not an argument against having CLL continue to be improved, updated and published - but it is a very good argument for an official textbook. --047d7bfd0b8e108ea9051556acb9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 6:46 AM = And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:


On 5 May 2015 11:24, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>= wrote:
>

> So you disagreed that conlangers dont understand CLL. S= o please name those who were able to understand CLL and then speak Lojban.<= /p>

CLL purports to be a reference grammar. Only exceptionally w= ould a reader of a reference grammar be able to speak the language as a res= ult of reading a reference grammar of it, however perspicuous the reference= grammar is. It is normal that readers of even the most perspicuous referen= ce grammar understand the grammar but are not able to speak the language.


Yup. The fact that muddling your way thr= ough trying to treat a refgram as a textbook seems to be a traditional rite= of passage among Lojbanists is not an argument against having CLL continue= to be improved, updated and published - but it is a very good argument for= an official textbook.=C2=A0
--047d7bfd0b8e108ea9051556acb9-- --===============6161760053833077895== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ llg-board mailing list llg-board@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board --===============6161760053833077895==--