Received: from localhost ([::1]:58113 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiiKS-0006kb-Qm; Sun, 04 Oct 2015 05:23:48 -0700 Received: from mail-io0-f181.google.com ([209.85.223.181]:35093) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiiKM-0006kU-3q for llg-board@lojban.org; Sun, 04 Oct 2015 05:23:46 -0700 Received: by ioiz6 with SMTP id z6so160574043ioi.2 for ; Sun, 04 Oct 2015 05:23:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=//8a/GpgrIUsDokLPcLYm5a7Ovuk0UUgzDiIDIIlnmQ=; b=uc7escw2yLxbgtH3a5FIkhDSnLX9QvHLs7pQo9KvcRaE2QwHhG+QCZysHpuwvIa13G mM+WTAS958ucYclDy+XZxArTHy/xtJJ7dcQ9XMO82LTl25mZF7jecqt4Up6Yq4d2Tz/q zNHwPlzTtsc+0ueWWUpGVPWJ1meWOAZP53cNf290YxvkeX3X8g/HcilkZzvCylDBGXys on5AMj614CgHZs5HnClD4r9tUapbwRA31TlONebFK46U/uR7coXfN6064zl0+mqT/e3g tBBwzEKWOzmidFlatebxeXAVg6q58D0BuWLJpgcVCoT7bLVwpa+I4b0FHYjxAzsG/VbD msWQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.27.136 with SMTP id b130mr24298764iob.28.1443961416173; Sun, 04 Oct 2015 05:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.85.200 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Oct 2015 05:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.85.200 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Oct 2015 05:23:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55F848FE.9030406@lojban.org> References: <55F848FE.9030406@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 13:23:35 +0100 Message-ID: From: And Rosta To: llg-board@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.2 X-Spam_score_int: -21 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [llg-board] The lojban text and music pages X-BeenThere: llg-board@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-board@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5246788580784137711==" Errors-To: llg-board-bounces@lojban.org --===============5246788580784137711== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113fe6ac47cf1905214677e0 --001a113fe6ac47cf1905214677e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I tend to think that much IP is theft, and there's no moral case for taking down the copyright stuff. The question would then be how LLG should act in the face of immoral law. I would tentatively recommend leaving things as they are, but removing them if a copyright holder comes along and objects. But Bob's line is more prudent. I don't feel strongly enough about this to reargue my position if the rest of the board feels otherwise. --And. On 15 Sep 2015 17:36, "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" < lojbab@lojban.org> wrote: > One thing I left out of the meeting discussion, but maybe it needs to be > dealt with at the annual meeting, or maybe we should do it ourselves. > I was told of these two pages during the discussion I participated in at > LogFest, and have since spent a little time looking at many (most?) of the > items. > > I will note in passing that whoever redesigned the menus and home page has > made it remarkably difficult to find these two pages. They need to be > easier, and also highlighted/promoted. The recent music in particular > makes Lojban seem much closer to a living language. > > But that isn't the issue I need to raise, which is copyright. > > In part because of how we got started on Lojban, given JCB's copyright > claims on Loglan, which he was using to dictate how people used the > language, as well as gave him extreme control over every issue that came up > - we have made it a priority to be very careful about respecting copyright > and intellectual property rights from the beginning. This is especially > important because we are an international organization, and some countries > (the UK in particular that I know of) has stronger copyright laws than the > US has. > > As a result of this policy, we have primarily focused on translation only > from works that were copyright-free, or where we had express permission > from the author. In particular, John Cowan's translation of a popular > childrens' book (Are You My Mother?), done for my kids 20 years ago, was > never released to the community. The Board also explicitly decided that we > could not in any way promote or publicize (much less host) the translation > of "The Little Prince" on our site, since permissions were not sought. > > Much to my chagrin, "The Little Prince" is on the texts page, along with > SEVERAL children's books that I am sure are under copyright. I don't know > about the music (which has its own special rules under US copyright, but > may have a robust enough licensing system that we can get permissions. I > know at least one song on there (a translation of a popular children's song > from a Russian TV show, I think done by guskant) that is likely under > copyright (it was one of my son's favorites when he first arrived from > Russia). I suspect that there are others. > > Someone needs to weed through these web pages and figure out which of them > have potential copyright problems, and either get rid of them or propose > ways to cover us from potential liability (getting permissions for > non-commercial use of the music, for example). If we remove items, it > would probably be OK to mention their existence, noting the copyright issue > on the page, in hopes that they won't simply reappear the next time someone > edits the page. (The Little Prince has come up perhaps a half dozen times > over the years because people keep wanting to put it back on our site). > > Please, some discussion ... > > lojbab > > _______________________________________________ > llg-board mailing list > llg-board@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board > --001a113fe6ac47cf1905214677e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I tend to think that much IP is theft, and there's no mo= ral case for taking down the copyright stuff. The question would then be ho= w LLG should act in the face of immoral law. I would tentatively recommend = leaving things as they are, but removing them if a copyright holder comes a= long and objects. But Bob's line is more prudent. I don't feel stro= ngly enough about this to reargue my position if the rest of the board feel= s otherwise.

--And.

On 15 Sep 2015 17:36, "Bob LeChevalier, Pre= sident and Founder - LLG" <loj= bab@lojban.org> wrote:
One thing I left out of the meeting discussion, but maybe it need= s to be dealt with at the annual meeting, or maybe we should do it ourselve= s.
I was told of these two pages during the discussion I participated in at Lo= gFest, and have since spent a little time looking at many (most?) of the it= ems.

I will note in passing that whoever redesigned the menus and home page has = made it remarkably difficult to find these two pages.=C2=A0 They need to be= easier, and also highlighted/promoted.=C2=A0 The recent music in particula= r makes Lojban seem much closer to a living language.

But that isn't the issue I need to raise, which is copyright.

In part because of how we got started on Lojban, given JCB's copyright = claims on Loglan, which he was using to dictate how people used the languag= e, as well as gave him extreme control over every issue that came up - we h= ave made it a priority to be very careful about respecting copyright and in= tellectual property rights from the beginning.=C2=A0 This is especially imp= ortant because we are an international organization, and some countries (th= e UK in particular that I know of) has stronger copyright laws than the US = has.

As a result of this policy, we have primarily focused on translation only f= rom works that were copyright-free, or where we had express permission from= the author.=C2=A0 In particular, John Cowan's translation of a popular= childrens' book (Are You My Mother?), done for my kids 20 years ago, w= as never released to the community.=C2=A0 The Board also explicitly decided= that we could not in any way promote or publicize (much less host) the tra= nslation of "The Little Prince" on our site, since permissions we= re not sought.

Much to my chagrin, "The Little Prince" is on the texts page, alo= ng with SEVERAL children's books that I am sure are under copyright.=C2= =A0 I don't know about the music (which has its own special rules under= US copyright, but may have a robust enough licensing system that we can ge= t permissions.=C2=A0 I know at least one song on there (a translation of a = popular children's song from a Russian TV show, I think done by guskant= ) that is likely under copyright (it was one of my son's favorites when= he first arrived from Russia).=C2=A0 I suspect that there are others.

Someone needs to weed through these web pages and figure out which of them = have potential copyright problems, and either get rid of them or propose wa= ys to cover us from potential liability (getting permissions for non-commer= cial use of the music, for example).=C2=A0 If we remove items, it would pro= bably be OK to mention their existence, noting the copyright issue on the p= age, in hopes that they won't simply reappear the next time someone edi= ts the page.=C2=A0 (The Little Prince has come up perhaps a half dozen time= s over the years because people keep wanting to put it back on our site).
Please, some discussion ...

lojbab

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