Received: from localhost ([::1]:34276 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZjOnH-0002oT-W6; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 02:44:24 -0700 Received: from mail-io0-f174.google.com ([209.85.223.174]:35847) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZjOnB-0002oM-Va for llg-board@lojban.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 02:44:22 -0700 Received: by ioii196 with SMTP id i196so214879576ioi.3 for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 02:44:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=AIsVHdwEFnguA56ZG0o0t3E29WRUFaZevQRN75T/0Gg=; b=JBBd+vk6oMrA1tle20WgrEltfYVvndbNzd6jlBO6CVjBxZS0nuHZEgIsuf4ikgbVlB JRu0YbKlYb7Rwa39qEn163x9z0Kd1vMbQrUGEzyN/QI1bpcpF8fVpI5BjaUv/+zqZzWo 0HXRQYGbzJZXr6OtCeDrqwX0CzlwvG6q9Ae1O9pFfcLrAbV8UO+dr3t4xXByUkr26TUW 26n8kh1UQp1vzrjcDmuyDJUwX6cz+rOlzIbhcnfmezckrgey27e73rHE/pQROWW1GwH1 OU7yAkXlyPF/95GUdWUyULrXv1RXQr9bLfVyjW/okMhqid/sW8nEoLGfomnpYsWQB4AW VhFw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.170.32 with SMTP id t32mr34484312ioe.173.1444124652003; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 02:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.85.200 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 02:44:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5613751A.6050809@lojban.org> References: <55F8422C.7060108@lojban.org> <53A6AFBB-E438-47FE-91C8-A47E011279C5@gmail.com> <5613751A.6050809@lojban.org> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 10:44:11 +0100 Message-ID: From: And Rosta To: llg-board@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.2 X-Spam_score_int: -21 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [llg-board] Time for another annual meeting? X-BeenThere: llg-board@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-board@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7445097435042728077==" Errors-To: llg-board-bounces@lojban.org --===============7445097435042728077== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1142edfce4e97605216c7875 --001a1142edfce4e97605216c7875 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 6 October 2015 at 08:15, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > On 10/5/2015 8:33 AM, Riley Martinez-Lynch wrote: > >> I made this pre-announcement of the meeting on September 26: >> >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-announcements/P_9OfNi6pLg/rEwVtgw= bBAAJ >> >> >> In order to be able to accept bylaw proposals in the case of >> less-than-complete attendance, we need to announce the meeting 15 days >> before it is convened. Accordingly, I=E2=80=99d like to propose that the= 2015 >> annual meeting of LLG be convened on Saturday, October 24, with an >> announcement of this date on Friday, October 9. I=E2=80=99d like to spec= ifically >> request the consent (or objection) of the president and vice-president >> to this timetable. >> > > I will consider this a motion (which is what I asked for at the start of > this thread). Second? > Okay, I'll second. > > I have no objection to the date, but ... > > I haven't seen any actual bylaw amendments proposed. Have you? The mai= n > reason for the advance notice is to ensure members know enough to ensure > being present or proxying. Thus, any proposals have to be > textually-specific enough to allow advance consideration. > > (It is unclear whether a proposed amendment is amendable during a meeting > that does not have everyone present, or whether an amended proposal then > has to be advance-noticed to the following year, and formally adopted > then. This was an issue when amendment(s) were proposed by Robin back wh= en > he became active. I think this was that messy meeting (2003?) that you > (Riley) attempted to sort out minutes for several months ago.) > > If there are no bylaw proposals, we can still go with the 2 weeks notice > for politeness sake, so I can support the motion as is. > > I would like the announcement to include an actual agenda, including the > bylaw-standard order, the topics of discussion proposed by the community > (classed as old or new business), and the intended special discussion of > membership and officer qualifications/needs as proposed by And, to be hel= d > out of order prior to member and Board election. > For fairly low down the agenda is my proposal for an additional honorary title for Lojbab, but before getting into a debate about it at the meeting itself, it might make sense to vote on (or at least discuss) whether to postpone further discussion until Lojbab is no longer president or vice president. > > I thinking about it, perhaps that special discussion should be > cross-posted to the main Lojban lists in case it might inspire new > volunteers for membership. Or perhaps it might be better to just post > brief summaries of that discussion to the main list. > I could cross-post my initial summary. Non-members would reply to the main list; LLG members could choose which list to reply to. > > Having an advance agenda widely distributed might lead to people actually > participating in the meeting, rather than weeks of silence as we seek in > vain for people having something to say about issues that they supposedly > want to discuss. > > lojbab > > PS perhaps we should have an amendment clarifying - or possibly modifying > or deleting - the advance notice requirement. Much of the stuff in the > bylaws was designed around real meetings that people had to take time and > action in order to attend or specify a proxy vote, as opposed to the > reality now of email meetings where every member is subscribed to the > mailing list, and thus inherently is "present" as long as the email addre= ss > is valid. Of course someone may be on the list but never actually read > what is posted. It's good to have a roll-call, because it reveals that some people are not participating and should be considered absent. But the long notice-periods aren't needed, now that we no longer hold the meetings in real time. --And. --001a1142edfce4e97605216c7875 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 6 October 2015 at 08:15, Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>= wrote:
On 10/5/2= 015 8:33 AM, Riley Martinez-Lynch wrote:
I made this pre-announcement of the meeting on September 26:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://g= roups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-announcements/P_9OfNi6pLg/rEwVtgwbBAAJ

In order to be able to accept bylaw proposals in the case of
less-than-complete attendance, we need to announce the meeting 15 days
before it is convened. Accordingly, I=E2=80=99d like to propose that the 20= 15
annual meeting of LLG be convened on Saturday, October 24, with an
announcement of this date on Friday, October 9. I=E2=80=99d like to specifi= cally
request the consent (or objection) of the president and vice-president
to this timetable.

 I will consider this a motion (which is what I asked for at the start of th= is thread). Second?

Okay, I'll seco= nd.
=C2=A0

I have no objection to the date, but ...

I haven't seen any actual bylaw amendments proposed.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Have y= ou?=C2=A0 The main reason for the advance notice is to ensure members know = enough to ensure being present or proxying.=C2=A0 Thus, any proposals have = to be textually-specific enough to allow advance consideration.

(It is unclear whether a proposed amendment is amendable during a meeting t= hat does not have everyone present, or whether an amended proposal then has= to be advance-noticed to the following year, and formally adopted then.=C2= =A0 This was an issue when amendment(s) were proposed by Robin back when he= became active.=C2=A0 I think this was that messy meeting (2003?) that you = (Riley) attempted to sort out minutes for several months ago.)

If there are no bylaw proposals, we can still go with the 2 weeks notice fo= r politeness sake, so I can support the motion as is.

I would like the announcement to include an actual agenda, including the by= law-standard order, the topics of discussion proposed by the community (cla= ssed as old or new business), and the intended special discussion of member= ship and officer qualifications/needs as proposed by And, to be held out of= order prior to member and Board election.

<= div>For fairly low down the agenda is my proposal for an additional honorar= y title for Lojbab, but before getting into a debate about it at the meetin= g itself, it might make sense to vote on (or at least discuss) whether to p= ostpone further discussion until Lojbab is no longer president or vice pres= ident.
=C2=A0

I thinking about it, perhaps that special discussion should be cross-posted= to the main Lojban lists in case it might inspire new volunteers for membe= rship.=C2=A0 Or perhaps it might be better to just post brief summaries of = that discussion to the main list.

I cou= ld cross-post my initial summary. Non-members would reply to the main list;= LLG members could choose which list to reply to.
=C2=A0

Having an advance agenda widely distributed might lead to people actually p= articipating in the meeting, rather than weeks of silence as we seek in vai= n for people having something to say about issues that they supposedly want= to discuss.

lojbab

PS perhaps we should have an amendment clarifying - or possibly modifying o= r deleting - the advance notice requirement.=C2=A0 Much of the stuff in the= bylaws was designed around real meetings that people had to take time and = action in order to attend or specify a proxy vote, as opposed to the realit= y now of email meetings where every member is subscribed to the mailing lis= t, and thus inherently is "present" as long as the email address = is valid.=C2=A0 Of course someone may be on the list but never actually rea= d what is posted.

It's good to have a r= oll-call, because it reveals that some people are not participating and sho= uld be considered absent. But the long notice-periods aren't needed, no= w that we no longer hold the meetings in real time.

--And.
--001a1142edfce4e97605216c7875-- --===============7445097435042728077== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ llg-board mailing list llg-board@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board --===============7445097435042728077==--