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[96.239.57.28]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s6sm1865915qtc.11.2016.06.29.06.18.36 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Jun 2016 06:18:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Riley Martinez-Lynch Message-Id: <23A0B5F9-6EDC-4555-8959-B61B11D8580E@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:18:43 -0400 References: <33ef899e-478f-eee0-1e8e-38e71ccfbc26@lojban.org> To: llg-board@lojban.org In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.0 X-Spam_score_int: -9 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [llg-board] Volunteers and qualifications for office X-BeenThere: llg-board@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-board@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2096184968852833210==" Errors-To: llg-board-bounces@lojban.org --===============2096184968852833210== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2E773DAB-23F8-4915-9E18-3E35E402B4FC" --Apple-Mail=_2E773DAB-23F8-4915-9E18-3E35E402B4FC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I appreciate Curtis volunteering to take on these responsibilities and = the way that he has responded directly to the criteria that I suggested. = His initiative in confronting those concerns helps to check my = reservations. There=E2=80=99s no discourse management attitudinal for directness, is = there? I=E2=80=99m think something that would work out to =E2=80=9Clet = me be frank vs beating around the bush=E2=80=9D. In any case, ta=E2=80=99o nai, let me be frank. There=E2=80=99s one = exchange during the meeting which has stuck with me, and which I need to = understand better before I can take a position on Curtis=E2=80=99 = candidacy. Curtis, I=E2=80=99m hoping you will help me to understand what you meant = when, following your proposal to amend the BPFK charter, you wrote: "this would, purposefully, give certain groups advantage over others = depending on the circumstances. That was the primary intention (although = that cannot be said because doing so undermines the purpose - but here = we are now! :P ).=E2=80=9D It=E2=80=99s possible that I misapprehended what you meant, but I = construed this to say that your intention in proposing the amendment was = to redistribute influence among factions that you had in mind but were = not explicitly naming, and that you had tactically concealed this = intention. If I misunderstood, I=E2=80=99d like to give you an opportunity to = explain how I should have interpreted what you wrote. To the extent that = I didn=E2=80=99t misunderstand, I=E2=80=99d like to ask you to fully = disclose your thoughts about which groups you had in mind, and which = circumstances. I want to be clear: It=E2=80=99s important that a candidate for = president or vice president have strong opinions about how we operate = organizationally. It=E2=80=99s not necessary for me to agree with a = candidate on all the particulars, or even many of the generals, for them = to gain my support. But I do want to know exactly where they stand. = Above all, I need to be sure that they are committed to enacting the = will of the community that they represent, even at the expense of their = personal vision. This is important because the underlying value, the primacy of the = community of speakers, is, as I understand it, why lojban is our loglan.=20= =E2=80=94Riley no=E2=80=99u la mukti > On Jun 29, 2016, at 3:31 AM, Curtis Franks = wrote: >=20 > I hesitate to assume for myself, in the absence of any competition or = even commentary, the office of President because I do not want to seem = like I am reaching or trying to amass power and, equally importantly, I = recognize that I lack the familiarity and experience that may be desired = for the executor of the role; moreover, I have not demonstrated in the = final months of the last meeting, any skill or experience in = consensus-building or successful legislation-drafting - in fact, I = realize that I was a startling failure in these domains. I understand = that this performance was uninspiring, contentious, and unhelpful. I = will try to improve no matter what my role. All that I can say for my = prior conduct was that I was trying to be constructive and active - to = do something and to avoid pitfalls in the process. I do think that I can = do a good job in any office that I hold if I am given guidance, = assistance, patience, and perhaps some direction. I will conduct myself = more appropriately as I observe and judge, and as I am advised, in such = a role. But I also understand that I have far from earned the trust of = my peers. I do not want to bring doubt or grievance to management of = this organization. I do not want people to lose faith in it. It may be = the case that my recognizing these things - my failings and weaknesses - = and my pledge to consciously improve with respect to them may secure for = myself some small fraction of faith from others. >=20 > Still, I believe that, unless another course is necessary, a gradual = transition would be best. That way, I can test the waters and others can = test me. I am more keen on the Vice-Presidential role as a result. But I = also understand Lojbab's reluctance in continuing his present office and = that some large degree of power-sharing is likely; I imagine that = (should he retain his present role) he will begin and then bring me up = to speed in efforts, history, style, and advice for conduct. Then, he = will guide me and step in occasionally, as he deems desirable or = necessary, gradually phasing out almost entirely as the meeting = proceeds; I will increase in presence in inverse proportion. Of course, = he may choose to do otherwise - he does not need my welcome here, and = especially not my permission, but he has both in abundance. >=20 > In short, I happily, although somewhat reservedly and = self-consciously, nominate myself for the office of Vice-President. I = hope to be admirably vigorous in my intention, but also wise in its = conduct. If absolutely desired by the community or necessary by = development of events, I will take the office of President with more = reservation. >=20 > I do still welcome others to nominate alternatives who may be more = qualified and demonstratedly trustworthy. I will do my very best, but I = understand my perception and position. I offer myself, essentially, as a = willing last-resort. >=20 > On Jun 25, 2016 19:53, "Curtis Franks" > wrote: > I agree about the timing and will hold off for a few days so that = others may comment or join the process. >=20 > On Jun 25, 2016 19:45, "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" = > wrote: > So Riley has volunteered as both Secretary and Treasurer, and no one = else has. >=20 > Curtis has said he would be interested in either President or Vice = President. >=20 > I'm willing to be President for another year, but I'm not enthusiastic = because I don't think I did a very good job this past year, and am not = sure I can do better in the coming year. I guess the same would be true = for Vice President. I can also imagine Curtis as VP to me as President, = and my largely delegating the job to him, at least insofar as *active* = leadership. But if he feels up to the Presidency as it is, maybe he = would be the better choice for President. (My inactivity doesn't suggest = any obvious role for me as VP other than as a name to fill the slot.) >=20 > If no one else speaks up for any office (maybe allow another day or = two at most), I suggest that someone move a particular slate, rather = than holding an election where there aren't multiple candidates. Curtis = is probably the best one to make such a motion since he knows best which = of the two top jobs he is more willing/interested in to serve, but = anyone can make the motion. >=20 > lojbab >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > llg-board mailing list > llg-board@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board = > _______________________________________________ > llg-board mailing list > llg-board@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board --Apple-Mail=_2E773DAB-23F8-4915-9E18-3E35E402B4FC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I appreciate Curtis volunteering to take on = these responsibilities and the way that he has responded directly to the = criteria that I suggested. His initiative in confronting those concerns = helps to check my reservations.

There=E2=80=99s no discourse management = attitudinal for directness, is there? I=E2=80=99m think something that = would work out to =E2=80=9Clet me be frank vs beating around the = bush=E2=80=9D.

In any case, ta=E2=80=99o nai, let me be frank. There=E2=80=99s= one exchange during the meeting which has stuck with me, and which I = need to understand better before I can take a position on Curtis=E2=80=99 = candidacy.

Curtis, I=E2=80=99m hoping you will help me to understand = what you meant when, following your proposal to amend the BPFK charter, = you wrote:

"this would, purposefully, give certain groups advantage over = others depending on the circumstances. That was the primary = intention (although that cannot be said because doing so undermines = the purpose - but here we are now! :P ).=E2=80=9D

It=E2=80=99s possible = that I misapprehended what you meant, but I construed this to say that = your intention in proposing the amendment was to redistribute influence = among factions that you had in mind but were not explicitly naming, and = that you had tactically concealed this intention.
If I misunderstood, I=E2=80=99d like = to give you an opportunity to explain how I should have interpreted what = you wrote. To the extent that I didn=E2=80=99t misunderstand, I=E2=80=99d = like to ask you to fully disclose your thoughts about which groups you = had in mind, and which circumstances.

I want to be clear: It=E2=80=99s = important that a candidate for president or vice president have strong = opinions about how we operate organizationally. It=E2=80=99s not = necessary for me to agree with a candidate on all the particulars, or = even many of the generals, for them to gain my support. But I do want to = know exactly where they stand. Above all, I need to be sure that they = are committed to enacting the will of the community that they represent, = even at the expense of their personal vision.

This is important because the = underlying value, the primacy of the community of speakers, is, as I = understand it, why lojban is our loglan. 

=E2=80=94Riley no=E2=80=99u la = mukti

On Jun 29, 2016, at 3:31 AM, Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:

I hesitate to assume for myself, in the absence of any = competition or even commentary, the office of President because I do not = want to seem like I am reaching or trying to amass power and, equally = importantly, I recognize that I lack the familiarity and experience that = may be desired for the executor of the role; moreover, I have not = demonstrated in the final months of the last meeting, any skill or = experience in consensus-building or successful legislation-drafting - in = fact, I realize that I was a startling failure in these domains. I = understand that this performance was uninspiring, contentious, and = unhelpful. I will try to improve no matter what my role. All that I can = say for my prior conduct was that I was trying to be constructive and = active - to do something and to avoid pitfalls in the process. I do = think that I can do a good job in any office that I hold if I am given = guidance, assistance, patience, and perhaps some direction. I will = conduct myself more appropriately as I observe and judge, and as I am = advised, in such a role. But I also understand that I have far from = earned the trust of my peers. I do not want to bring doubt or grievance = to management of this organization. I do not want people to lose faith = in it. It may be the case that my recognizing these things - my failings = and weaknesses - and my pledge to consciously improve with respect to = them may secure for myself some small fraction of faith from = others.

Still, I believe that, unless = another course is necessary, a gradual transition would be best. That = way, I can test the waters and others can test me. I am more keen on the = Vice-Presidential role as a result. But I also understand Lojbab's = reluctance in continuing his present office and that some large degree = of power-sharing is likely; I imagine that (should he retain his present = role) he will begin and then bring me up to speed in efforts, history, = style, and advice for conduct. Then, he will guide me and step in = occasionally, as he deems desirable or necessary, gradually phasing out = almost entirely as the meeting proceeds; I will increase in presence in = inverse proportion. Of course, he may choose to do otherwise - he does = not need my welcome here, and especially not my permission, but he has = both in abundance.

In short, I happily, = although somewhat reservedly and self-consciously, nominate myself for = the office of Vice-President. I hope to be admirably vigorous in my = intention, but also wise in its conduct. If absolutely desired by the = community or necessary by development of events, I will take the office = of President with more reservation.

I do = still welcome others to nominate alternatives who may be more qualified = and demonstratedly trustworthy. I will do my very best, but I understand = my perception and position. I offer myself, essentially, as a willing = last-resort.

On Jun 25, 2016 19:53, "Curtis Franks" <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree about the = timing and will hold off for a few days so that others may comment or = join the process.

On Jun 25, 2016 19:45, "Bob LeChevalier, = President and Founder - LLG" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
So Riley has volunteered as both Secretary and = Treasurer, and no one else has.

Curtis has said he would be interested in either President or Vice = President.

I'm willing to be President for another year, but I'm not enthusiastic = because I don't think I did a very good job this past year, and am not = sure I can do better in the coming year.  I guess the same would be = true for Vice President.  I can also imagine Curtis as VP to me as = President, and my largely delegating the job to him, at least insofar as = *active* leadership.  But if he feels up to the Presidency as it = is, maybe he would be the better choice for President. (My inactivity = doesn't suggest any obvious role for me as VP other than as a name to = fill the slot.)

If no one else speaks up for any office  (maybe allow another day = or two at most), I suggest that someone move a particular slate, rather = than holding an election where there aren't multiple candidates.  = Curtis is probably the best one to make such a motion since he knows = best which of the two top jobs he is more willing/interested in to = serve, but anyone can make the motion.

lojbab



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