Received: from localhost ([::1]:50840 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1baYg5-0002C5-Ne; Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:32:57 -0700 Received: from mail-yw0-f178.google.com ([209.85.161.178]:33928) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1baYg0-0002At-8L for llg-board@lojban.org; Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:32:56 -0700 Received: by mail-yw0-f178.google.com with SMTP id z8so5073945ywa.1 for ; Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:32:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=disposition-notification-to:return-receipt-to:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:date :to:message-id; bh=JFzuna7H2WIltaeNNKPZj5q0CQ/tYymhBTZ+rUoBq50=; b=F2gKgQcVoLjhEsZsH9Pvd3LRmlYhoj8tlO5vIN+WddzBe+FlzCIrFM/6ax+i1KiPt/ jb0GVuu6xJOwSw5lzTklEwHYYwg/OVfPOBlSUmclBaeoDDSufNK/qau9AxgYMG8B+pHS oA7Zj6PTAzNJjPrjWb89mulu3GR0Ev6jHbg+lCd+p2eLMmxH2T6zhd3FpSD+2CTVsLUA Hf1Url+98Cmzn3Td2rRXGl5gNf77GgC97S4x0mIMup+3iIpm9YEISEadsxBQ2S4ZPFnw JuflGlTKruxRHruZ3XXqPwEBWPArN/lCBaI1Ag5BsJTPH3uRT3ALKASv2NMwZ0pstY8Y CJag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:disposition-notification-to:return-receipt-to :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :subject:from:date:to:message-id; bh=JFzuna7H2WIltaeNNKPZj5q0CQ/tYymhBTZ+rUoBq50=; b=bNgW53mWvg3kt+Dg8HkchXsnPHnZ/BkOPwEQe4NoqpzWs+haJ8YH1JlwEnstaQde4x uaAZYHQNG1OJ+SjcgwNda56KSOVxcElSxlU2YPlzLzCaBu2kI4FFBmAV0EB7QMAaFpRP Qxdn/zpGI5/EgQYE8SdH4S14LclWppv6sHSJ1NW61GlObcuxVEy716VQrC6MQaqpPyRr IybObr9s2FRz1k0+U4e9H0rXwW6OELTuf70z+/bAjAi6Vx0AaZ9wMS5z3cb+s6V686Wh CPw+hyRsrH3c1pdOSe2TLAxM+RC741NZSavplBBKDT+L6IAK8hrpK8/RC4MUmQSBo+xi e2eQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkooutmRW2VfUHBgngPRZdybiOwfe6DzjKRq7YqpXZT0bco+l6pc2u2L5fS1AsRPe15Jg== X-Received: by 10.129.160.149 with SMTP id x143mr4396254ywg.11.1471570365811; Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:1003:b84b:604b:90c1:bfa3:ef44:9b14? ([2600:1003:b84b:604b:90c1:bfa3:ef44:9b14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p67sm743780ywe.2.2016.08.18.18.32.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:32:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <77EE71B1-1949-49B5-A7E2-976EAFB60D00@gmail.com> <165b7ba7-6d02-555b-5dbf-5ad4aa252075@lojban.org> <277f5780-7f22-2657-7bc4-fdaf9cd8a008@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Karen Stein Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 21:32:37 -0400 To: llg-board@lojban.org Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [llg-board] community outreach representatives X-BeenThere: llg-board@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-board@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8094199769659832636==" Errors-To: llg-board-bounces@lojban.org --===============8094199769659832636== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----D55WZD0CMVYD85I4UC229QRWOD2K19" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ------D55WZD0CMVYD85I4UC229QRWOD2K19 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks, Gleki -- First, when we were talking in the discussion it wasn't about advertising like that. Advertising is probably the wrong afford for it even, but I was very tired and waiting for my pain meds to kick in so I could sleep. It is more of making the site so appealing and straightforward to use that people show their friends, or at least tell them about it. Right now we don't have much "curb appeal." Also, he not only isn't asking for money, he's interested in possibly giving out little financial "thank yous"a occasionally for people who do something creative or otherwise special. This gives me the impression that he doesn't need the money and enjoys web site design. Does that address your comments sufficiently? If not either email him directly, particular with specific of programming, or terror here. While I'm on my trip this week and next I will try to check in at least a couple of times. karis On August 18, 2016 8:26:20 AM EDT, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >2016-08-18 15:14 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein : > >> The following come from a discussion I've been part of in the Taking >> Action thread in the Google lojban list. Here are two people >interested in >> working on a particular project the uakci brought up. It even >coincides >> with some of what we have been discussing. Do you suggest encouraging >this >> project go forward at this time? > > >See replies below. > > >> I'm asking because it is a major effort that could dramatically >improve >> our internet appearance, but will also take many resources in terms >of >> people and time. Timoteio is willing and able to do the actual design >and >> just needs help with specific parts of what is in it and how it's >> structured. Honestly I want e expecting something so large to be >among the >> first ideas I came across. >> >> I may take a bit to reply as I'll be on a holiday with little >internet >> access from this Saturday until next. >> >> karis >> >> ----------- >> >> Timothy Lawrence >> > What sorts of help do you anticipate wanting/needing? >> >> I am not knowledgeable about much of the history of Lojban and what >has >> been tried/achieved already, so I would need someone(s) advising me. >> I am not proficient at Lojban itself, at this stage. >> I am not proficient at translation workflow, or at doing translations >> myself. Any recommendations from others (especially translators) >would be >> appreciated. >> I would likely need assistance with any Lojban.org server systems >> administration. >> >> I also need the explicitly defined design goals of the website, so >nothing >> is missed. >> >> My suggested shortlist is that the website should: >> >> - advertise Lojban effectively >> > >No idea what is meant by "advertising". If some google ads like "come >to >lojban.org and learn the best auxiliary language ever" then certainly >I'm >against this. There is Esperanto for such matter. > > > >> - provide accessible up-to-date resources for learning Lojban >> - be up-to-date in translations for all target languages >> - clarify the distinction between official and non-official >information >> - function as a centralised nexus for the community >> - invite involvement in the community and connect Lojbanists >> - make it easy to manage community projects >> - have a low cognitive barrier-to-entry >> - work easily on both desktop and mobile >> > >If this person asks for money and LLG decides to pay, first we need to >ask >other programmers here how much they would charge and select the >programmer >according to their experience and demands. > >Also I suggest that LLG pay only after every step of the work is done. > > >> >> From those goals, I would research to select (or build) a system that >> enables or automates protocols/workflows for achieving those goals. >> >> I believe it's important to use software with a strict workflow from >the >> start, because humans are fallible and forgetful. This will ensure >> adherence to the goals never accidentally slips. >> >> This is why I personally don't think a wiki is very suitable for >official >> information and maintaining concurrent translations. >> >> If we have a list of persons who must approve new content, for >example, >> the system shouldn't allow it being published until everyone from >that list >> has approved. >> >> If we have a protocol to manage translations, it should be trivial to >> enforce that no single language version should be updated on the live >> website without all target language versions being updated for the >change. >> The system should automatically notify the appropriate translation >> volunteers as new content is added, then wait for them before the new >> content can be committed. >> >> I have heard of .PO files being a popular, open-source format for >> translations, with an established workflow, but I have not used them. >> > >Android seems to mostly use xml localization files. > >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> -- >> Sent: Wednesday, 17 August 2016 10:19 PM >> >> To: lojban >> Subject: Re: [lojban] taking action >> >> The Board discussed some of the problems with the current website >> situation, including difficulty identifying official vs not official >> material. I would be happy to mention you are offering to work on the >mess. >> What sorts of help do you anticipate wanting/needing? >> >> karis >> >> -- >> >> >> 2:08 AMla uakci >> I propose that it be a plain HTML site, constantly synchronizing to a >> Github repository which, in turn, will be connected to workflow >> organization utility. >> >> ~ mi'e co'a se tolzdi be lo nu cusku lu mi'e la uakci mu'o li'u .e lo >> simsa be ri do'u mu'o ~ >> >> - show quoted text - >> -- Karen Stein -- >> _______________________________________________ >> llg-board mailing list >> llg-board@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >llg-board mailing list >llg-board@lojban.org >http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board -- Karen Stein -- ------D55WZD0CMVYD85I4UC229QRWOD2K19 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, Gleki --

First, when we were talking in the discussion it wasn't about advertising like that. Advertising is probably the wrong afford for it even, but I was very tired and waiting for my pain meds to kick in so I could sleep. It is more of making the site so appealing and straightforward to use that people show their friends, or at least tell them about it. Right now we don't have much "curb appeal."

Also, he not only isn't asking for money, he's interested in possibly giving out little financial "thank yous"a occasionally for people who do something creative or otherwise special. This gives me the impression that he doesn't need the money and enjoys web site design.

Does that address your comments sufficiently? If not either email him directly, particular with specific of programming, or terror here. While I'm on my trip this week and next I will try to check in at least a couple of times.

karis



On August 18, 2016 8:26:20 AM EDT, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2016-08-18 15:14 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>:
The following come from a discussion I've been part of in the Taking Action thread in the Google lojban list. Here are two people interested in working on a particular project the uakci brought up. It even coincides with some of what we have been discussing. Do you suggest encouraging this project go forward at this time?

See replies below.
 
I'm asking because it is a major effort that could dramatically improve our internet appearance, but will also take many resources in terms of people and time. Timoteio is willing and able to do the actual design and just needs help with specific parts of what is in it and how it's structured. Honestly I want e expecting something so large to be among the first ideas I came across.

I may take a bit to reply as I'll be on a holiday with little internet access from this Saturday until next.

karis

-----------

Timothy Lawrence
> What sorts of help do you anticipate wanting/needing?

I am not knowledgeable about much of the history of Lojban and what has been tried/achieved already, so I would need someone(s) advising me.
I am not proficient at Lojban itself, at this stage.
I am not proficient at translation workflow, or at doing translations myself. Any recommendations from others (especially translators) would be appreciated.
I would likely need assistance with any Lojban.org server systems administration.

I also need the explicitly defined design goals of the website, so nothing is missed.

My suggested shortlist is that the website should:

- advertise Lojban effectively

No idea what is meant by "advertising". If some google ads like "come to lojban.org and learn the best auxiliary language ever" then certainly I'm against this. There is Esperanto for such matter.

 
- provide accessible up-to-date resources for learning Lojban
- be up-to-date in translations for all target languages
- clarify the distinction between official and non-official information
- function as a centralised nexus for the community
- invite involvement in the community and connect Lojbanists
- make it easy to manage community projects
- have a low cognitive barrier-to-entry
- work easily on both desktop and mobile

If this person asks for money and LLG decides to pay, first we need to ask other programmers here how much they would charge and select the programmer according to their experience and demands.

Also I suggest that LLG pay only after every step of the work is done.
 

From those goals, I would research to select (or build) a system that enables or automates protocols/workflows for achieving those goals.

I believe it's important to use software with a strict workflow from the start, because humans are fallible and forgetful. This will ensure adherence to the goals never accidentally slips.

This is why I personally don't think a wiki is very suitable for official information and maintaining concurrent translations.

If we have a list of persons who must approve new content, for example, the system shouldn't allow it being published until everyone from that list has approved.

If we have a protocol to manage translations, it should be trivial to enforce that no single language version should be updated on the live website without all target language versions being updated for the change. The system should automatically notify the appropriate translation volunteers as new content is added, then wait for them before the new content can be committed.

I have heard of .PO files being a popular, open-source format for translations, with an established workflow, but I have not used them.

Android seems to mostly use xml localization files. 

Hope this helps.

--
Sent: Wednesday, 17 August 2016 10:19 PM

To: lojban
Subject: Re: [lojban] taking action

The Board discussed some of the problems with the current website situation, including difficulty identifying official vs not official material. I would be happy to mention you are offering to work on the mess. What sorts of help do you anticipate wanting/needing?

karis

--


2:08 AMla uakci
I propose that it be a plain HTML site, constantly synchronizing to a Github repository which, in turn, will be connected to workflow organization utility.

~ mi'e co'a se tolzdi be lo nu cusku lu mi'e la uakci mu'o li'u .e lo simsa be ri do'u mu'o ~

- show quoted text -
-- Karen Stein --
_______________________________________________
llg-board mailing list
llg-board@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board



llg-board mailing list
llg-board@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board

-- Karen Stein -- ------D55WZD0CMVYD85I4UC229QRWOD2K19-- --===============8094199769659832636== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ llg-board mailing list llg-board@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board --===============8094199769659832636==--