Received: from localhost ([::1]:51251 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1badCV-0000H9-IH; Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:22:43 -0700 Received: from mail-lf0-f48.google.com ([209.85.215.48]:35011) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1badCP-0000Fx-0q for llg-board@lojban.org; Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:22:41 -0700 Received: by mail-lf0-f48.google.com with SMTP id f93so26096110lfi.2 for ; Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:22:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=VxhXeYnij2FsgZmulMi1c+EDMt1aEFwog3+tNV6hajw=; b=KifaiQc0HM0AmCA/CH/O/EymKjJZvX8wZ2t0JWU0jIEyh70czbyUubVnTsej7KFY0z VJm8S6T3LYhlp94LZhWSzfpzSGhSZj8k+JOwaawajGRQI4vsOAAbyW+8IBhbVvfVYOGm RTbX1qFSbtMWv70bY9wcOsMZa1T6x7eIT9AQFsNN9KKg3JJiOBk6+35qOip4sR8h16FD 2aH6S8xhiJmLzf78K6i4N+i0FxoJLl0gr2qylA/YPFxn2lIAYfGnvWomYWa3W3heE8B7 PAfOmL3FZHInJVLRkvgxNO1f1ufyUoMipKmQcRbB7UIZhFpjOryuSzOXkGKHEX4kRHY+ YH1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=VxhXeYnij2FsgZmulMi1c+EDMt1aEFwog3+tNV6hajw=; b=FkCXmzZp9D3JzexLok9VXXB8aUX1Zq3rLMuFV1rI5+RWPs7B/7Fg4wuofufZsiq/gT p9nWFhegu5YE6PwBvXiaCXEnRbD/Wx251jx18yHk9/CHX2XdGmAxAjkGwfal4LQtnIOi TBzjsyhE7ymnRQcGU0VBoFJeBCWO68fpFVYHGaZDtYOAdY4fzq7jKxYoA6TjSV1pgSEg J6EuEdwtyNnWxbep6jVJ6AqpR5bpIuOxgKVEzTFkslJ7ZOQDsiSQdmAvBTPN+Wtg6Z8Q 1Y1JztjzqrgwjyB0hed4sHltvFdOALwjBhPoRHuayjF6N0Gir6SoyDT7okTXyiz+t2VS 9qCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoousdih+kruPz2AnEqxXsfY5ItU1XG6uORa9EjINQQcNzRWiAJ+9THoZTuzIKqnqlliRdtyoVeWHgChBwig== X-Received: by 10.25.213.20 with SMTP id m20mr1792804lfg.61.1471587749336; Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:22:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.17.100 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:21:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <77EE71B1-1949-49B5-A7E2-976EAFB60D00@gmail.com> <165b7ba7-6d02-555b-5dbf-5ad4aa252075@lojban.org> <277f5780-7f22-2657-7bc4-fdaf9cd8a008@lojban.org> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:21:48 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-board@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [llg-board] community outreach representatives X-BeenThere: llg-board@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-board@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0935200076024668651==" Errors-To: llg-board-bounces@lojban.org --===============0935200076024668651== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1141238c0e1edb053a66b960 --001a1141238c0e1edb053a66b960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2016-08-19 4:32 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein : > Thanks, Gleki -- > > First, when we were talking in the discussion it wasn't about advertising > like that. Advertising is probably the wrong afford for it even, but I was > very tired and waiting for my pain meds to kick in so I could sleep. It is > more of making the site so appealing and straightforward to use that people > show their friends, or at least tell them about it. Right now we don't have > much "curb appeal." > > Also, he not only isn't asking for money, he's interested in possibly > giving out little financial "thank yous"a occasionally for people who do > something creative or otherwise special. This gives me the impression that > he doesn't need the money and enjoys web site design. > > Does that address your comments sufficiently? > Yes. If people are not asking for money then probably the only job of LLG is to try to make other people do the actual work (creating content, filling with content the intended website). > If not either email him directly, particular with specific of programming, > or terror here. While I'm on my trip this week and next I will try to check > in at least a couple of times. > > karis > > > > > On August 18, 2016 8:26:20 AM EDT, Gleki Arxokuna gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> 2016-08-18 15:14 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein : >> >>> The following come from a discussion I've been part of in the Taking >>> Action thread in the Google lojban list. Here are two people interested in >>> working on a particular project the uakci brought up. It even coincides >>> with some of what we have been discussing. Do you suggest encouraging this >>> project go forward at this time? >> >> >> See replies below. >> >> >>> I'm asking because it is a major effort that could dramatically improve >>> our internet appearance, but will also take many resources in terms of >>> people and time. Timoteio is willing and able to do the actual design and >>> just needs help with specific parts of what is in it and how it's >>> structured. Honestly I want e expecting something so large to be among the >>> first ideas I came across. >>> >>> I may take a bit to reply as I'll be on a holiday with little internet >>> access from this Saturday until next. >>> >>> karis >>> >>> ----------- >>> >>> Timothy Lawrence >>> > What sorts of help do you anticipate wanting/needing? >>> >>> I am not knowledgeable about much of the history of Lojban and what has >>> been tried/achieved already, so I would need someone(s) advising me. >>> I am not proficient at Lojban itself, at this stage. >>> I am not proficient at translation workflow, or at doing translations >>> myself. Any recommendations from others (especially translators) would be >>> appreciated. >>> I would likely need assistance with any Lojban.org server systems >>> administration. >>> >>> I also need the explicitly defined design goals of the website, so >>> nothing is missed. >>> >>> My suggested shortlist is that the website should: >>> >>> - advertise Lojban effectively >>> >> >> No idea what is meant by "advertising". If some google ads like "come to >> lojban.org and learn the best auxiliary language ever" then certainly >> I'm against this. There is Esperanto for such matter. >> >> >> >>> - provide accessible up-to-date resources for learning Lojban >>> - be up-to-date in translations for all target languages >>> - clarify the distinction between official and non-official information >>> - function as a centralised nexus for the community >>> - invite involvement in the community and connect Lojbanists >>> - make it easy to manage community projects >>> - have a low cognitive barrier-to-entry >>> - work easily on both desktop and mobile >>> >> >> If this person asks for money and LLG decides to pay, first we need to >> ask other programmers here how much they would charge and select the >> programmer according to their experience and demands. >> >> Also I suggest that LLG pay only after every step of the work is done. >> >> >>> >>> From those goals, I would research to select (or build) a system that >>> enables or automates protocols/workflows for achieving those goals. >>> >>> I believe it's important to use software with a strict workflow from the >>> start, because humans are fallible and forgetful. This will ensure >>> adherence to the goals never accidentally slips. >>> >>> This is why I personally don't think a wiki is very suitable for >>> official information and maintaining concurrent translations. >>> >>> If we have a list of persons who must approve new content, for example, >>> the system shouldn't allow it being published until everyone from that list >>> has approved. >>> >>> If we have a protocol to manage translations, it should be trivial to >>> enforce that no single language version should be updated on the live >>> website without all target language versions being updated for the change. >>> The system should automatically notify the appropriate translation >>> volunteers as new content is added, then wait for them before the new >>> content can be committed. >>> >>> I have heard of .PO files being a popular, open-source format for >>> translations, with an established workflow, but I have not used them. >>> >> >> Android seems to mostly use xml localization files. >> >>> >>> Hope this helps. >>> >>> -- >>> Sent: Wednesday, 17 August 2016 10:19 PM >>> >>> To: lojban >>> Subject: Re: [lojban] taking action >>> >>> The Board discussed some of the problems with the current website >>> situation, including difficulty identifying official vs not official >>> material. I would be happy to mention you are offering to work on the mess. >>> What sorts of help do you anticipate wanting/needing? >>> >>> karis >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> 2:08 AMla uakci >>> I propose that it be a plain HTML site, constantly synchronizing to a >>> Github repository which, in turn, will be connected to workflow >>> organization utility. >>> >>> ~ mi'e co'a se tolzdi be lo nu cusku lu mi'e la uakci mu'o li'u .e lo >>> simsa be ri do'u mu'o ~ >>> >>> - show quoted text - >>> -- Karen Stein -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> llg-board mailing list >>> llg-board@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> llg-board mailing list >> llg-board@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board >> >> > -- Karen Stein -- > > _______________________________________________ > llg-board mailing list > llg-board@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board > > --001a1141238c0e1edb053a66b960 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2016-08-19 4:32 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein <comcaresvcs@gmail.com&g= t;:
Thanks, Gleki --

First, when we were talking in the discussion it wasn't about advertisi= ng like that. Advertising is probably the wrong afford for it even, but I w= as very tired and waiting for my pain meds to kick in so I could sleep. It = is more of making the site so appealing and straightforward to use that peo= ple show their friends, or at least tell them about it. Right now we don= 9;t have much "curb appeal."

Also, he not only isn't asking for money, he's interested in possib= ly giving out little financial "thank yous"a occasionally for peo= ple who do something creative or otherwise special. This gives me the impre= ssion that he doesn't need the money and enjoys web site design.

Does that address your comments sufficiently?

Yes. If people are not asking for money then probably the only job= of LLG is to try to make other people do the actual work (creating content= , filling with content the intended website).

=C2= =A0
If not either email him direc= tly, particular with specific of programming, or terror here. While I'm= on my trip this week and next I will try to check in at least a couple of = times.

karis




On August 18, 2016 8:26:20 AM EDT, Gleki= Arxokuna <gleki.i= s.my.name@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:


2016-08-18 15:14 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein <comcaresvcs@gmail.com&= gt;:
The follow= ing come from a discussion I've been part of in the Taking Action threa= d in the Google lojban list. Here are two people interested in working on a= particular project the uakci brought up. It even coincides with some of wh= at we have been discussing. Do you suggest encouraging this project go forw= ard at this time?

See replies below.
<= div>=C2=A0
I'm = asking because it is a major effort that could dramatically improve our int= ernet appearance, but will also take many resources in terms of people and time. Timoteio is willing and able to= do the actual design and just needs help with specific parts of what is in= it and how it's structured. Honestly I want e expecting something so l= arge to be among the first ideas I came across.

I may take a bit to reply as I'll be on a holiday with little internet = access from this Saturday until next.

karis

-----------

Timothy Lawrence
> What sorts of help do you anticipate wanting/needing?

I am not knowledgeable about much of the history of Lojban and what has bee= n tried/achieved already, so I would need someone(s) advising me.
I am not proficient at Lojban itself, at this stage.
I am not proficient at translation workflow, or at doing translations mysel= f. Any recommendations from others (especially translators) would be apprec= iated.
I would likely need assistance with any Lojban.org server systems administration.

I also need the explicitly defined design goals of the website, so nothing = is missed.

My suggested shortlist is that the website should:

- advertise Lojban effectively

No idea = what is meant by "advertising". If some google ads like "com= e to lojban.org and lea= rn the best auxiliary language ever" then certainly I'm against th= is. There is Esperanto for such matter.

=C2=A0
- provide accessible up-to-date resources for learning Lojban
- be up-to-date in translations for all target languages
- clarify the distinction between official and non-official information
- function as a centralised nexus for the community
- invite involvement in the community and connect Lojbanists
- make it easy to manage community projects
- have a low cognitive barrier-to-entry
- work easily on both desktop and mobile

If this person asks for money and LLG decides to pay, first we need to as= k other programmers here how much they would charge and select the programm= er according to their experience and demands.

Also= I suggest that LLG pay only after every step of the work is done.
=C2=A0

From those goals, I would research to select (or build) a system that enabl= es or automates protocols/workflows for achieving those goals.

I believe it's important to use software with a strict workflow from th= e start, because humans are fallible and forgetful. This will ensure adhere= nce to the goals never accidentally slips.

This is why I personally don't think a wiki is very suitable for offici= al information and maintaining concurrent translations.

If we have a list of persons who must approve new content, for example, the= system shouldn't allow it being published until everyone from that lis= t has approved.

If we have a protocol to manage translations, it should be trivial to enfor= ce that no single language version should be updated on the live website wi= thout all target language versions being updated for the change. The system= should automatically notify the appropriate translation volunteers as new = content is added, then wait for them before the new content can be committe= d.

I have heard of .PO files being a popular, open-source format for translati= ons, with an established workflow, but I have not used them.

Android seems to mostly use xml localization files.= =C2=A0

Hope this helps.

--
Sent: Wednesday, 17 August 2016 10:19 PM

To: lojban
Subject: Re: [lojban] taking action

The Board discussed some of the problems with the current website situation= , including difficulty identifying official vs not official material. I wou= ld be happy to mention you are offering to work on the mess. What sorts of = help do you anticipate wanting/needing?

karis

--


2:08 AMla uakci
I propose that it be a plain HTML site, constantly synchronizing to a Githu= b repository which, in turn, will be connected to workflow organization uti= lity.

~ mi'e co'a se tolzdi be lo nu cusku lu mi'e la uakci mu'o = li'u .e lo simsa be ri do'u mu'o ~

- show quoted text -
-- Karen Stein --
__________________________________= _____________
llg-board mailing list
llg-board@lojban.= org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-bo= ard


llg-board@lojban.org
http://mail.lo= jban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-board

-- Karen Stein --

_______________________________________________
llg-board mailing list
llg-board@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-bo= ard


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