From arj@nvg.org Mon Jan 02 04:55:47 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-board); Mon, 02 Jan 2006 04:55:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.67]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EtPDv-0000bm-LZ for llg-board@lojban.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 04:55:45 -0800 Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E4B94781 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:55:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:54:08 +0100 (CET) From: Arnt Richard Johansen X-X-Sender: arj@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no To: llg-board@lojban.org Subject: [llg-board] Re: Two organizations In-Reply-To: <20060102042644.GJ4087@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: References: <20051219070640.GB3514@ccil.org> <43AB97DF.8030703@lojban.org> <20051226195753.GB5289@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20060102042644.GJ4087@chain.digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-NVG-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NVG-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: arj@nvg.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 42 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arj@nvg.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-board@lojban.org X-list: llg-board Sorry for being this bitchy. I'm not trying to stifle fun and creative activities, it is only the organisational aspects of it I disagree with. Please, Matt (and everyone else): don't let my critical attitude keep you from proposing new stuff. We need every single idea. On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 01:35:39AM +0100, Arnt Richard Johansen > wrote: >> On Mon, 26 Dec 2005, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2005 at 11:45:44AM -0500, Matt Arnold wrote: >>> >>>> [...] I propose an imaginary Lojban-speaking nation, >>>> and we'll offer "citizenship." I'll design some beautiful faux >>>> immigration paperwork, a passport, a naturalization certificate >>>> and everything. [...] >>> >>> Sounds like a lot of fun to me. Go for it. >> >> Yes, that does sound like a lot of fun, and I think Matt & anyone >> else should go for it. >> >> However, it is my opinion that it should NOT be adopted by the LLG >> as an official project. This is because we are likely to alienate >> those who are interested in Loglan for serious purposes, because >> they can be expected to think that anything that smacks of >> micronationalism is silly, and that Lojban is primarily a toy for >> use in shared fiction. >> >> So I move that xartum is to be removed from the list of official >> projects, and continued as independently of the LLG as possible. > > Two things: > > 1. This was Matt's suggestion as to what the seperate enthusiasts > organization would be wrapped around. You don't seem to have > addressed that. I didn't read Matt's suggestion like that at all. I like the idea as a role-playing system, but if it is really Matt's and your intention to organise Lojban enthusiasts solely in this way, I think it is unfortunate, and very different from what I want the membership organisation to be like, and what it seemed like you wanted it to be like. I was thinking about something along the lines of UAE ( http://www.uea.org/info/angle/an_kio.html ). I still think something like that is necessary in a long perspective, and beneficial in a shorter perspective. I'm not saying that xartum isn't something the membership org *should do*, but I don't think that the membership org *should be* *only* that. > 2. Have you *looked* at the projects page? Yes, I have looked at it. > More than half of the > entries have had no activity, umm, ever. The whole point of the > projects page was for things that were basically not associated with > the LLG, The title and contents of the page contradicts what you just said. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Official%20LLG%20Projects (note "Official" and "LLG") # This page consists of a list of projects which are officially recognized # by the LLG as being potentially useful contributions to the lojban # language. This list is non-exclusionary, meaning that the LLG supports # just about anything people want to do that involves lojban or the LLG. # The projects here are simply those that people have asked to have official # recognition for. > but to give people a sense of what was going on and to > answer the question "what can I help with?". *nod* But for a sense of what is going on, how about something unofficial like http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ongoing+Projects&bl ? (Sadly outdated at the moment.) -- Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ Den tredje dagen* tar jeg en dusj. [...] Jeg har ikke savnet å vaske meg engang. --Erling Kagge: Alene til Sydpolen (*dvs. den tredje dagen på sydpolen, 53 dager etter avreise fra Patriot Hills.)