From matt.mattarn@gmail.com Mon Jan 02 08:22:32 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-board); Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:22:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.206]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EtSS3-0003rZ-Gq for llg-board@lojban.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:22:30 -0800 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so2518045nzn for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:22:26 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=lX9q5SI/IZCQc8vL3ZRFrCbw4FwglrlbcNZYjmAmHNqZY2M6Mq37/W7tDChSGh3cSDHiCkaYhRCoBTBTiFqw+t3jt+0+UWcuRB7yiVSBQJQgRgSu6Khgg+FaWLlvv1eTosMbz1mS5JIaKOGg0zFTpYKGLTG/EDQBgrOuDKy3zgo= Received: by 10.65.240.8 with SMTP id s8mr220385qbr; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:22:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.110.14 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:22:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:22:25 -0500 From: Matt Arnold To: llg-board@lojban.org Subject: [llg-board] Re: Two organizations In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20051219070640.GB3514@ccil.org> <43AB97DF.8030703@lojban.org> <20051226195753.GB5289@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20060102042644.GJ4087@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 45 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-board@lojban.org X-list: llg-board > > 1. This was Matt's suggestion as to what the seperate enthusiasts > > organization would be wrapped around. You don't seem to have > > addressed that. > > I didn't read Matt's suggestion like that at all. I like the idea as a > role-playing system, but if it is really Matt's and your intention to > organise Lojban enthusiasts solely in this way, I think it is unfortunate, > and very different from what I want the membership organisation to be > like, and what it seemed like you wanted it to be like. > > I was thinking about something along the lines of UAE ( > http://www.uea.org/info/angle/an_kio.html ). I still think something like > that is necessary in a long perspective, and beneficial in a shorter > perspective. > > I'm not saying that xartum isn't something the membership org *should do*, > but I don't think that the membership org *should be* *only* that. That link is very informative. I have been asking for a few weeks "what is the informal organization?" To put the exact same thing in another way, "what would it _do_?" There came no answer, only shrugs. To those I spoke to, it was intended to exist for no other reason than to be a decoy away from the LLG. So I came up with something -- anything -- for the informal organization to do, and that was xartum. The only reason that I intended to organize Lojban enthusiasts as a roleplaying micronation was for the lack of a proposed alternative. This page about the UEA lists activities and goals. Up until the phrase "For 51 years", almost every sentence on the page describes something to _do._ The UEA is not just names on a list. I would support an organization similar to that for Lojban. As a model to work from, I have copied and pasted the text below, and re-written it to apply to Lojban. (Let's change the name later.) Esperanto is a "movement" with "activists" and I doubt Lojban will ever be that. -epkat What is ULA? The Universal Lojban Association The Universal Lojban Association was founded in 2006 as an organization of individual Lojbanists. ULA works to promote Lojban. Its statute lists the following four goals: * to promote the use of Lojban. * to create venues and contexts for the use of Lojban online and offline, to organize, fund, and attend Lojban teaching, speaking and socializing activities, and Lojbanic artistic and literary collaboration. * to develop and beta-test computer applications for the language. * to nurture and assist those who are considering learning Lojban as a hobby, to be a test group of experimentation subjects for linguistics, psychology, philosophy, anthropology, sociology, and education. * to encourage scientists in the above fields to formulate and perform experiments on Lojban-speakers. ULA will be a Lojban publisher, the largest mail-order Lojban bookstore in the world, the secretariat of the semi-annual world Lojban congress, and an information center. It will have an online library, and its network of activists will be the largest and most international in the movement. It is not necessary to have a title in order to contribute to ULA. You can do this in dozens of ways, often quite simple. Regularly contributing to a fund or foundation. Accepting and fulfilling the tasks of a ULA delegate. Recruiting other members among your acquaintances. Paying dues for a friend in a poor country. Connecting your Lojban club with clubs in other countries and continents. Discussing the activity of ULA in your club or national Lojban association. Collaborating with the LLG, xartum, or an affiliated specialized association. And so forth...