From lojbab@lojban.org Mon Sep 18 15:38:49 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-board); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from centrmmtao05.cox.net ([70.168.83.79]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GPRlD-0000oR-Vt for llg-board@lojban.org; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:38:47 -0700 Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by centrmmtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with ESMTP id <20060918223841.SDJY8328.centrmmtao05.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:38:41 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id PyeH1V00b3y5FKc0000000 Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:38:19 -0400 Message-ID: <450F1FEC.4030109@lojban.org> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:38:36 -0400 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: llg-board@lojban.org Subject: [llg-board] Re: Lojban blog References: <20060918165438.GU27480@miranda.org> <20060918185800.GC4610@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20060918215025.GW27480@miranda.org> In-Reply-To: <20060918215025.GW27480@miranda.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 172 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-board@lojban.org X-list: llg-board Jay F Kominek wrote: > The board gave Robin the authority to be the webmaster. If he delegates > that authority, I'll quite possibly be the last person to complain. > > Robin wrote: > >>The question of "is it possible?" is arguably one for the webmaster, >>but the webmaster is a delegation of the duties of the Secretary, >>who is on the board. > > The webmaster, as far as I see it, has responsibility and authority > for not only the technical matters regarding the site, but also the > content. If the webmaster is a delegation of Secretarial duties, then the webmaster has responsibility to promulgate *official* communications, which are those communications that are approved by the Board. Which of the following duties do you think gives the Secretary authority or responsibility to determine non-official content for the web page? The web sit isn't even mentioned in the Bylaws. > SECRETARY/TREASURER The Secretary/Treasurer shall keep the Minutes of > the meetings of the Board of Directors and of the members in appropriate books. > > He shall give and serve all notices of the Corporation. > > He shall be custodian of the records of the Corporation. > > He shall present to the Board of Directors at its stated meetings all communications addressed to him officially by the President or any Officer or member of the Corporation. > > He shall attend to all correspondence and perform all the duties incident to the office of Secretary/Treasurer. > > He shall have the care and custody of and be responsible for all the funds and securities of the Corporation, and shall deposit all such funds in the name of the Corporation in such bank or banks, trust company or trust companies or safe deposit vaults as the Board of Directors may designate. > > He shall sign, make and endorse in the name of the Corporation, checks, notes, drafts, bills of exchange, warrants and orders for the payment of money and pay out and dispose of same and receipt therefore, under the direction of the President or the Board of Directors. > > He shall exhibit at all reasonable times his books and accounts to > any Director or member of the Corporation upon application at the office of the Corporation. > > He shall render a statement of the condition of the finances of the Corporation at each regular meeting of the Board of Directors, and at such other times as shall be required of him, and full financial report, at the Annual Meeting of the members. > > He shall keep at the office of the Corporation, correct books of account of all its business and transactions and such other books of account as the Board of Directors may require. > > He shall do and perform all duties appertaining to the office of Treasurer. (In actuality, I think I appointed Robin as webmaster as President under the following authority) He shall appoint and remove, employ and discharge, and fix the compensation of all servants, agents, employees and clerks of the Corporation other than the duly appointed Officers, subject to the approval of the Board of Directors. Similarly, apart from the "official projects" designation, it is Arnt who has the authority to designate Matt as a spokesperson for the organization. But we as the Board have the responsibility to review and approve such a designation. >You have the authority to rearrange and present new content > on the web site as you see fit until you're relieved of your position > as the Secretary. There in nothing in the Bylaws that suggests any power over website content. Delegation of the work of the organization is the responsibility of the President and not the Secretary, subject to Board approval. > If you don't feel that you have authority to manipulate the content > as you see fit, or you don't feel empowered to delegate that authority, > well that is a matter of the board. One that I think we could all see > fit to correct promptly. That presumes that Robin WANTS that authority. But the President and the Board have the delegation power, and I see no reason to delegate the delegation power. > Bob wrote: >>I mostly agree with you Robin, and indeed I point out that the >>revolution against me was largely because I wasn't going to the >>Board and community for decisions but making them by myself. > > Bah. I can't speak for others, but I was distressed by your apparent > *lack* of decisions, and the board's failure to replace you. As actually presented to me, and with justification, it was my failure to actively involve the full Board in my decision-making that I considered a legitimate grievance (I usually consulted a rump board consisting of me Nora and Cowan which made up a majority most of the time. This was a shortcut, and it was improper of me to take that shortcut.) >>If Matt saw the decision as being something affecting the community >>rather than his own personal interest in the language, then indeed >>the Board is who is supposed to be the first responders. > > The board has delegated its authority in a number of matters to specific > individuals, who might further delegate. I've never seen any motion that did so, except for the byfy (which if you recall is defined at considerable length as to its delegated authority in the motion that created it). Even there the two jatna have come to the board to report on major decisions which the Board had the option to approve, reject, or let stand. > These people at the bottom of > the authority tree are the first responders. To suggest that the board > must be the first to deal with every issue is backwards. The board has the DUTY to *officially* deal with any issue that requires an official position. No one has the authority to make official decisions unless the Board explicitly delegates that authority, as was done with byfy > Section 4. Duties of Directors. The Board of Directors shall have the > control and general management of the affairs and business of this > Corporation. ... >>I have no problem with the name inheritance, but I want Jay's >>opinion, and ideally to have the various projects merged by >>agreement (I suggest that you take a look at other outstanding >>projects on the projects page, and see if other synergies can lead >>to more focused efforts). > > Matt can have whatever newsletter/announcement projects and names he > likes. More power to him. OK. The last thing I want us to do on the Board is step on the toes of someone who has done and is still doing as much as you have - even though you presumably know I have been dissatisfied by the lack of JL resumption, I have not moved to take it back or to get someone else specifically because I appreciate what you have done. >>However, Robin has shown increasing desire with time to get out of the >>business of deciding the nitty-gritty of content, as evidenced by the >>fact that damn near everything on the site is editable by users without >>his involvement. > > Which is well and good. As I suggest and mention above, Robin can > delegate his authority to Matt and whoever else on this, and as many > other web-related matters as he sees fit. If it is something that is to be considered official, or which will commit LLG resources on a long-term basis, then the Board has ultimate authority for making decisions. We aren't likely to override Robin's choice, but if the LLG web page is as official as it is perceived by the world, the Board should be consulted, and we should take responsibility for that ultimate decision. For adhockery, what you say is fine, but it was clear from his proposal that Matt was seeking a more official face to his effort, to explicitly incorporate the independent blogs in the official outreach effort of the organization. That is also why I turned it into a motion adopting his effort as an official project. Only the Board can designate something as "official", including web content, except insofar as it is required by law. I have appreciated Robin's careful inclusion of a disclaimer of officialness on most if not all web pages. lojbab