From rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Fri Jan 19 11:07:56 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-board); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:07:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H7z5b-0004tH-EU for llg-board@lojban.org; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:07:53 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:07:51 -0800 To: llg-board@lojban.org Subject: [llg-board] [rt@lojban.org: Re: [lojban.org #2084] Your site.] Message-ID: <20070119190751.GN21920@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: llg-board@lojban.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: Robin Lee Powell X-archive-position: 283 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-board@lojban.org X-list: llg-board Just FYI. -Robin ----- Forwarded message from Rob Phillips via RT ----- Subject: Re: [lojban.org #2084] Your site. From: Rob Phillips via RT Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:01:09 -0800 Hahaha. That was a quick reply. And, quite honestly, writing that email was rather entertaining for me. It wasn't a fair critique by any means, but some of the things I said are partially true. One such fact that I still can't agree with you on "Navigation should be boring." "Flashy and distracting" is also wrong, of course, but it is possible to be relatively simple and aesthetically pleasing at the same time. On the other hand, your system does work and no one can claim that it is too complicated. Also, the sites that you mention that have white backgrounds do not have large blocks of text on those backgrounds, which is my main problem with your layout. They break it up into small sections with different dividers and backgrounds on top of the white base. I am actually surprised that you even bothered to reply, but I'm glad that you seem to care about what you're doing. Anyways, since you did reply, I'm sorry about the monkey balls comment, although it still does make me laugh. By the way, I definitely have my browser and monitor settings under control. :) -Rob. On 1/18/07, Robin Lee Powell via RT wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 01:15:36PM -0800, Rob Phillips via RT wrote: > > > > Your site blows. In fact, it blows big monkey balls. I don't > > know how to say or stress this in 'lojban' so I'm going to say it > > again in English: your site is a web design abomination. The > > first thing that comes to mind when you hear 'lojban' is loser or > > nerd. If your site reflects the sentiment of 'boring nerd stuff' > > then your whole organization is doomed to forever fall into this > > category. I, personally, do not care whatsoever about 'lojban,' > > your goals with it, or your incredibly horrible website. This is > > just my complaint that even if I wanted to read some of the text > > on the home page, I wouldn't be able to do so without a burning > > sensation in my retinas. FIX THIS. I am not a web designer. I > > am, however, someone who views web material everyday, and I know > > the difference between a good site and a bad site. > > Wow. You really know how to get people to do what you want, don't > you? Yep, being pointlessly insulting out of the blue is > *definately* how you get on in this world. > > > Add color. Change the background to something other than the harsh > > white so that it does not hurt to read. Also, the navigation > > setup is simply boring. > > And what insightful, useful suggestions! > > 1. Yes, clearly google.com, ibm.com, yahoo.com, paypal.com and > ebay.com should all take away their horrible white backgrounds. > :-| FFS, learn to configure your browser or turn down the > brightness on your monitor or something. > > 2. This may surprise you, but "boring" is completely useless > feedback, for two reasons: navigation *should* be boring, and it > doesn't tell me what elements you'd want to see changed. > > > It is understandable that you would go for a simplistic design > > that fits the material, but this one failed, and it will continue > > to fail as long as it turns readers away. > > Actually, Lojban users have been increasing continuously since I > took over as webmaster. This is my second site redesign, and I got > many spontaneous compliments since I put it in place. I interact > with users of the site every day, and you're the first person to > provide such... helpful feedback. No-one else has said anything > similar. > > -Robin > > -- > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ > Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" > Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ > > > >     Hahaha.  That was a quick reply.  And, quite honestly, writing that email was rather entertaining for me.  It wasn't a fair critique by any means, but some of the things I said are partially true.  One such fact that I still can't agree with you on "Navigation should be boring."  "Flashy and distracting" is also wrong, of course, but it is possible to be relatively simple and aesthetically pleasing at the same time.  On the other hand, your system does work and no one can claim that it is too complicated.  Also, the sites that you mention that have white backgrounds do not have large blocks of text on those backgrounds, which is my main problem with your layout.  They break it up into small sections with different dividers and backgrounds on top of the white base.   I am actually surprised that you even bothered to reply, but I'm glad that you seem to care about what you're doing.    Anyways, since you did reply, I'm sorry about the monkey balls comment, although it still does make me laugh.  By the way, I definitely have my browser and monitor settings under control. :)

-Rob.

On 1/18/07, Robin Lee Powell via RT <rt@lojban.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 01:15:36PM -0800, Rob Phillips via RT wrote:
>
> Your site blows.  In fact, it blows big monkey balls.  I don't
> know how to say or stress this in 'lojban' so I'm going to say it
> again in English:  your site is a web design abomination.  The
> first thing that comes to mind when you hear 'lojban' is loser or
> nerd.  If your site reflects the sentiment of 'boring nerd stuff'
> then your whole organization is doomed to forever fall into this
> category.  I, personally, do not care whatsoever about 'lojban,'
> your goals with it, or your incredibly horrible website. This is
> just my complaint that even if I wanted to read some of the text
> on the home page, I wouldn't be able to do so without a burning
> sensation in my retinas.  FIX THIS.  I am not a web designer.  I
> am, however, someone who views web material everyday, and I know
> the difference between a good site and a bad site.

Wow.  You really know how to get people to do what you want, don't
you?  Yep, being pointlessly insulting out of the blue is
*definately* how you get on in this world.

> Add color. Change the background to something other than the harsh
> white so that it does not hurt to read.  Also, the navigation
> setup is simply boring.

And what insightful, useful suggestions!

1.  Yes, clearly google.com, ibm.com, yahoo.com, paypal.com and
ebay.com should all take away their horrible white backgrounds.
:-|  FFS, learn to configure your browser or turn down the
brightness on your monitor or something.

2.  This may surprise you, but "boring" is completely useless
feedback, for two reasons: navigation *should* be boring, and it
doesn't tell me what elements you'd want to see changed.

> It is understandable that you would go for a simplistic design
> that fits the material, but this one failed, and it will continue
> to fail as long as it turns readers away.

Actually, Lojban users have been increasing continuously since I
took over as webmaster.  This is my second site redesign, and I got
many spontaneous compliments since I put it in place.  I interact
with users of the site every day, and you're the first person to
provide such... helpful feedback.  No-one else has said anything
similar.

-Robin

--
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/




----- End forwarded message ----- -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/