From matt.mattarn@gmail.com Wed Mar 11 04:14:08 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-board); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com ([209.85.198.228]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LhMNw-0005xf-Be for llg-board@lojban.org; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:14:08 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id g9so2768284rvb.2 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:14:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FMCmIqrqlcYOwLJX9pKPhsM7T6KqDM4QDSFJS3LB+Q4=; b=CHYns3hyhX7u/ljJg1ytdbeIojHDmHaH0VzOcEwKOYMcU2Gl2e4OtuaLmP2ttHt5m1 eyH3cZOlAlpIJtrpCO1ezsAxo0xfqUrSb6ZWyhhqqcQqqgVJT/yqW6wP7E7JYir3XHIU dedE2KMtDQyHnEKmMSAVYyd6KLQEvUKOSx3E0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=WyryYGzMcEX3hL0IbqJvQiluLr4l/9YTVb3LzIYJdUGiKqYrCDzFxk76bMausqCUXh gQXtERcnmHl0IqottanDRreWftLETDvtYsWu3kj+NgqaYVrVUfMpvXTv8xPXdEsd2Ytp 5e4pefbRY/Vcp5A8WUETIf9TfrUXyc4Jq/IJg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.62.9 with SMTP id p9mr4324030rvk.218.1236770042543; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:14:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090311103021.GT7405@nvg.org> References: <20090305191021.GE27391@digitalkingdom.org> <49B03EEA.3050305@lojban.org> <20090305212839.GI27391@digitalkingdom.org> <49B0473D.2060508@lojban.org> <20090305214356.GJ27391@digitalkingdom.org> <49B06356.9080901@lojban.org> <20090305235619.GO27391@digitalkingdom.org> <49B789EF.8060402@lojban.org> <20090311103021.GT7405@nvg.org> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:14:02 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [llg-board] Re: Spending money on getting people to penguicon. From: Matt Arnold To: llg-board@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 491 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-board-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-board@lojban.org X-list: llg-board Exposure on xkcd and internet word-of-mouth are driving all the traffic we need, for free. But we're losing them because of incomplete areas. For instance, if they don't get a satisfactory answer to what "le" means and so on and so forth. Meeting in person keeps the core of our group excited, increasing the momentum we need to finish BPFK, create a dictionary, update the reference materials, and launch Lojban learning software on the web, thereby keeping more of the people who find us. -Eppcott On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Arnt Richard Johansen wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 05:52:47AM -0400, Robert LeChevalier wrote: >> Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> >10%?  We're not using the money for anything.  What are you saving >> >the 90% *for*? >> >> At one time you mentioned that we might have to start paying a >> commercial server to handle lojban.org.  I can't imagine that this would >> be cheap. > > Robin is currently paying out of pocket for a server on Amazon Cloudfront. > >> I assume we eventually intend to publish a dictionary, and/or republish >> CLL.  CLL cost us $17500 last time, and a dictionary would likely be >> worse.  LS might be cheaper for a softcover, but I don't recall that >> they do "real" books of the sort that libraries put on their shelves. > > They do hardcover. > http://www.lightningsource.com/products_hardback.aspx > > But it seems like they're not going to tell us how much it costs unless we log in to our account. Robin, can you do that? > >> A single press release to promote a new book will likely run $500, based >> on the fact that it ran over $300 last time. >> >> JCB spent around $2000 for his last advertisement in Scientific >> American, a splurge I could never justify with our own cash flow (we >> spent $120 for a micro-ad in Discover which got us a lot of calls but >> few sales because I had no clue how to write an ad to generate >> business), but the original Loglan community was largely built on >> responses to a SciAm ads in the 1970s. >> >> In short, big money is needed to promote the language wholesale, >> something we have never tried because I couldn't in good conscience do >> so without a dictionary in print. > > I think the World Wide Web has changed advertising completely, at least for the kind of enterprise we are doing. We can reach the right kind of people far cheaper now than before. To a certain extent I would say that the language is marketing itself. > >> I paid for it myself last time, but sending just two people to a >> Worldcon, and selling books at a table would cost us well over $1000, >> but would give us enormously more exposure than LogFest, which is being >> held at a small local convention. >> >> I guess I'm not as confident that spending a large chunk of money for a >> couple of individuals to attend LogFest will promote the language all >> that much.  I wouldn't think that LogFest itself is worth more than 10% >> of our annual budget given the small percentage of the existing >> community it serves. If it became a bigger deal, perhaps it would be >> worthwhile spending more, but I doubt that it will. > > This, granted, is a good point. > > -- > Arnt Richard Johansen                                http://arj.nvg.org/ > Keyboard: The Ultimate Input Device >