Received: from localhost ([::1]:49318 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YCsic-0006tE-Qj; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 08:28:54 -0800 Received: from mail-we0-f181.google.com ([74.125.82.181]:48951) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YCsiU-0006sz-Ak for llg-members@lojban.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 08:28:48 -0800 Received: by mail-we0-f181.google.com with SMTP id q58so27658418wes.12 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 08:28:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=41BssIo9eLOe1L4hZxuOIgoVsXKyDVw6afn4hHZK8bA=; b=R3/i61gMHKoBbHEMLwlGkDB30qSZ2BueDsrXDNj/tOFFNCYCP8G01af5C7vlQCSQYw sburdIYyJveO+vPTTIrq8D8IPeK/BRqVRfjt66r3AyagwcKUd054ZjmHOJtvjEHGHwpu vFXquEECZTRSjvB4V4OMX4FjTctaUS9IAqz6c4P3sf6ictSzu9tdgCNhp8lSf8SEugRQ xABSrZz2jgVgJL2uUtrChXjOUa49JqSPl2JfZg++0oEUwwoTB87pXG9o0S/UYyFQoacO FUQeDVAb79X+919TACcwLUkY+RRu1zJQubgIhMAjLd8w2Po7tSFEaCSA/+jrMIYHC/gk hUVA== X-Received: by 10.180.91.109 with SMTP id cd13mr26143209wib.46.1421598519778; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 08:28:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.86.200 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 08:28:19 -0800 (PST) From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 19:28:19 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.7 X-Spam_score_int: 7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Here I put for voting changing the official wiki (based on tiki engine running from lojban.org) to another wiki based on mediawiki engine. The alternative wiki is now installed in TEST mode at mw.lojban.org Note that since it is test mode it might not be as fast as we would like to. [...] Content analysis details: (0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: lojban.org] 2.7 DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL RBL: Envelope sender listed in dnsbl.ahbl.org [listed in gmail.com.rhsbl.ahbl.org. IN] [A] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [74.125.82.181 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (gleki.is.my.name[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders Subject: [Llg-members] On changing the official wiki X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0690710162204024116==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============0690710162204024116== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0438948fc8e45f050cefb273 --f46d0438948fc8e45f050cefb273 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Here I put for voting changing the official wiki (based on tiki engine running from lojban.org) to another wiki based on mediawiki engine. The alternative wiki is now installed in TEST mode at mw.lojban.org Note that since it is test mode it might not be as fast as we would like to. Why is this desirable according to me: 1. Some people are complaining that the tiki has ugly interface coming from 90s. 2. Tiki has security issues according to Riley. It cant be easily upgraded since there have been patches to the engine core (according to Robin Lee Powell, the LLG's Webmaster). 3. Tiki has poor representation on the web. We need a wiki that will tell the world about itself. Advantages of MediaWiki: 1. It is uses the same engine as Wikipedia. Wikipedia (which uses MediaWiki engine) is the fifth used website on the web. It's unlikely it will be discontinued. If in future they decide to migrate from PHP to a more advanced programming language they will provide tools for migration. In any case LLG would be freed from the burden of spending money on wiki software projects by just using a well supported open source project. MediaWiki doesnt require patching the core to add new features. The core can be upgraded without affecting the content of the wiki itself. 2. Mediawiki allows for greater flexibility in formatting pages. E.g. this is how we can show dialogues with every user having a name is their own color: http://mw.lojban.org/lmw/a_Vague_PA 3. It allows to show the front page of the wiki in the language determined by user location (GeoIP) and browser preferences. Thus it's friendly to user language preferences, not only to those who speak English. E.g. if you are in Russia then mostly likely mw.lojban.org will show up in Russian language. ke'u, this is autodetection. Still the front page shows language flags to change to a different version. 4. Changes in Mediawiki even now are automatically crossposted to Twitter, Facebook and VK, currently well known social networks. This increases the presence of Lojban on the net showing that our project is thriving and thus indirectly helping LLG. These days people get a lot of information from social networks and we should adapt to that. How we can migrate? 1. The content of the wiki has already been copied to the new wiki in April 2013. The changes in the older wiki are not numerous. They can be easily integrated (for example, by me (=la gleki) on your request) in a matter of weeks with their formatting improved. 2. LLG asks the Treasurer and the Webmaster to move the wiki to a faster server (determined by the Webmaster) with hyperlinks to the new wiki corrected to lojban.org. 3. /tiki/ addresses will be redirected to the new wiki so that we don't get Error 404, the latter is something not very pleasant in e-marketing. 4. The old wiki will be redirected to another address so that those who still wish to read it can do that. This step is also required to transfer changes from April 2013 to the new wiki. Now you can vote. --f46d0438948fc8e45f050cefb273 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here I put for voting changing the official wiki (based on= tiki engine running from l= ojban.org) to another wiki based on mediawiki engine.

The alternative wiki is now installed in TEST mode at mw.lojban.org
Note that since= it is test mode it might not be as fast as we would like to.
Why is this desirable according to me:
1. Some people are c= omplaining that the tiki has ugly interface coming from 90s.
2. T= iki has security issues according to Riley. It cant be easily upgraded sinc= e there have been patches to the engine core (according to Robin Lee Powell= , the LLG's Webmaster).
3. Tiki has poor representation o= n the web. We need a wiki that will tell the world about itself.
=
Advantages of MediaWiki:
1. It is uses the same en= gine as Wikipedia. Wikipedia (which uses MediaWiki engine) is the fifth use= d website on the web. It's unlikely it will be discontinued.=C2=A0If in= future they decide to migrate from PHP to a more advanced programming lang= uage they will provide tools for migration. In any case LLG would be freed = from the burden of spending money on wiki software projects by just using a= well supported open source project. MediaWiki doesnt require patching the = core to add new features. The core can be upgraded without affecting the co= ntent of the wiki itself.
2. Mediawiki allows for greater flexibi= lity in formatting pages. E.g. this is how we can show dialogues with every= user having a name is their own color:=C2=A0http://mw.lojban.org/lmw/a_Vague_PA=
3. It allows to show the front page of the wiki in the lan= guage determined by user location (GeoIP) and browser preferences. Thus it&= #39;s friendly to user language preferences, not only to those who speak En= glish. E.g. if you are in Russia then mostly likely mw.lojban.org will show up in Russian langu= age. ke'u, this is autodetection. Still the front page shows language f= lags to change to a different version.
4. Changes in Mediawiki ev= en now are automatically crossposted to Twitter, Facebook and VK, currently= well known social networks. This increases the presence of Lojban on the n= et showing that our project is thriving and thus indirectly helping LLG. Th= ese days people get a lot of information from social networks and we should= adapt to that.

How we can migrate?
1. T= he content of the wiki has already been copied to the new wiki in April 201= 3. The changes in the older wiki are not numerous. They can be easily integ= rated (for example, by me (=3Dla gleki) on your request) in a matter of wee= ks with their formatting improved.
2. LLG asks the Treasurer and = the Webmaster to move the wiki to a faster server (determined by the Webmas= ter) with hyperlinks to the new wiki corrected to lojban.org.
3. /tiki/ addresses will b= e redirected to the new wiki so that we don't get Error 404, the latter= is something not very pleasant in e-marketing.
4. The old wiki w= ill be redirected to another address so that those who still wish to read i= t can do that. This step is also required to transfer changes from April 20= 13 to the new wiki.

Now you can vote.
--f46d0438948fc8e45f050cefb273-- --===============0690710162204024116== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============0690710162204024116==--