Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 12:47:31 -0500
From: Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com>
To: llg-members@lojban.org
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 Content preview:  .i mi tugni do so'e da .i mi sarji gi'e cmima da'i vau lo
 bende be fo lo nu mulgau lo lojbo velcki .i mi ka'e se bitygau gi'e ca naju
 ba birti tu'a lo nu lo lojbo velcki cu jai ba'e *sarcu* lo vlanunjmina .iku'i
 mi je'a zmanei lo lojbo velcki tolcau se vlaste gi'e troci co ciska ri va'o
 lo nu mi jmina lo valsi kei noi pubi'oca to'e cafne .i ganai lo nu sarcu
 cu toldarsygau fi lo nu jikca lo jbovlaste gi da'i da drata seju bende lo
 se bangu be so'i rarna fo lo nu sidju lo vlafi'i lo nu ciska lo lojbo velcki
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Subject: Re: [Llg-members] nu ningau so'u se jbovlaste / updating a few
 jbovlaste entries
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.i mi tugni do so'e da .i mi sarji gi'e cmima da'i vau lo bende be fo lo nu mulgau lo lojbo velcki
.i mi ka'e se bitygau gi'e ca naju ba birti tu'a lo nu lo lojbo velcki cu jai ba'e *sarcu* lo vlanunjmina .iku'i mi je'a zmanei lo lojbo velcki tolcau se vlaste gi'e troci co ciska ri va'o lo nu mi jmina lo valsi kei noi pubi'oca to'e cafne
.i ganai lo nu sarcu cu toldarsygau fi lo nu jikca lo jbovlaste gi da'i da drata seju bende lo se bangu be so'i rarna fo lo nu sidju lo vlafi'i lo nu ciska lo lojbo velcki

[translated]
I agree with you on most points. I support the idea of (and I would participate in) a working group to fill out the pure-Lojban definitions. I'm not 100% (though I could be convinced) on _requiring_ a Lojban definition in order to add a word, though I certainly appreciate when it's done and try to do it when I add a word (which I have not yet done very frequently). To the extent that such a requirement would discourage participation in jbovlaste, perhaps we could have another group (or the same group), composed of speakers of as many natlangs as possible, to help contributors with writing pure-Lojban definitions. 

- mu'o mi'e la durkavore 


On Monday, January 19, 2015 at 11:52 AM, guskant wrote:

> 2015-01-19 21:45 GMT+09:00 selpahi <selpahi@selpahi.de (mailto:selpahi@selpahi.de)>:
> 
> > In any case, it is unreasonable and damaging (regardless of whether or that
> > practice adheres to LLG standards) to keep these (and other outdated)
> > definitions in jbovlaste under the user marked "officialdata" with 10000
> > votes. Practically nobody uses the old definitions of {zabna} and {mabla},
> > and new people are mislead time and again when they search for their
> > definitions, because it still displays the old one. This must be changed,
> > and not in ten years after everything else has been done, but right now
> > (years ago, really).
> > 
> > It is time to update our agenda and be able to do the urgent things
> > immediately, especially when they are so easy to do. But we will get to that
> > when we get to discussing the baseline.
> > 
> 
> 
> I agree completely.
> 
> Besides, it may be too much advanced thought, but I think all official
> gismu and cmavo should be defined in Lojban.
> 
> A language consists of only sequences of symbols regulated by a
> grammar, but the universe expressed by a language depends on
> definitions of words. As long as the words of a language are defined
> by another language, the universe is restricted to that can be
> expressed by the language used for the definitions. I think the
> universe expressed by Lojban should be liberated from the other
> languages.
> 
> Looking up words in la jbovlaste, Lojban definitions were already
> given to most of official cmavo by la xorxes, as well as to some of
> gismu by several people. Maybe we need a systematic group work to
> complete the official Lojban definitions.
> 
> Also, I suggest all experimental cmavo/gismu should be accompanied by
> Lojban definitions. I wish such restriction were included in the
> functions of adding words to la jbovlaste. (Such a function may bring
> also a secondary effect that anyone who is not a skillful Lojban
> speaker cannot add cmavo/gismu that are sometimes annoying to most of
> Lojban speakers.)
> 
> mi'e la guskant mu'o
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Llg-members mailing list
> Llg-members@lojban.org (mailto:Llg-members@lojban.org)
> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members
> 
> 


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                <div>.i mi tugni do so'e da .i mi sarji gi'e cmima da'i v=
au lo bende be fo lo nu mulgau lo lojbo velcki</div><div>.i mi ka'e se bi=
tygau gi'e ca naju ba birti tu'a lo nu lo lojbo velcki cu jai ba'e *sarcu=
* lo vlanunjmina .iku'i mi je'a zmanei lo lojbo velcki tolcau se vlaste g=
i'e troci co ciska ri va'o lo nu mi jmina lo valsi kei noi pubi'oca to'e =
cafne</div><div>.i ganai lo nu sarcu cu toldarsygau fi lo nu jikca lo jbo=
vlaste gi da'i da drata seju bende lo se bangu be so'i rarna fo lo nu sid=
ju lo vlafi'i lo nu ciska lo lojbo velcki</div><div><br></div><div>=5Btra=
nslated=5D</div><div>
                    I agree with you on most points. I support the idea o=
f (and I would participate in) a working group to fill out the pure-Lojba=
n definitions. I'm not 100% (though I could be convinced) on =5Frequiring=
=5F a Lojban definition in order to add a word, though I certainly apprec=
iate when it's done and try to do it when I add a word (which I have not =
yet done very frequently). To the extent that such a requirement would di=
scourage participation in jbovlaste, perhaps we could have another group =
(or the same group), composed of speakers of as many natlangs as possible=
, to help contributors with writing pure-Lojban definitions.
                </div><div><br></div><div>- mu'o mi'e la durkavore</div>
                <div></div>
                =20
                <p style=3D=22color: =23A0A0A8;=22>On Monday, January 19,=
 2015 at 11:52 AM, guskant wrote:</p>
                <blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 style=3D=22border-left-styl=
e:solid;border-width:1px;margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px;=22>
                    <span><div><div><div>2015-01-19 21:45 GMT+09:00 selpa=
hi &lt;<a href=3D=22mailto:selpahi=40selpahi.de=22>selpahi=40selpahi.de</=
a>&gt;:</div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D=22cite=22><div><div>In an=
y case, it is unreasonable and damaging (regardless of whether or that</d=
iv><div>practice adheres to LLG standards) to keep these (and other outda=
ted)</div><div>definitions in jbovlaste under the user marked =22official=
data=22 with 10000</div><div>votes. Practically nobody uses the old defin=
itions of =7Bzabna=7D and =7Bmabla=7D,</div><div>and new people are misle=
ad time and again when they search for their</div><div>definitions, becau=
se it still displays the old one. This must be changed,</div><div>and not=
 in ten years after everything else has been done, but right now</div><di=
v>(years ago, really).</div><div><br></div><div>It is time to update our =
agenda and be able to do the urgent things</div><div>immediately, especia=
lly when they are so easy to do. But we will get to that</div><div>when w=
e get to discussing the baseline.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div>I agree completely.</div><div><br></div><div>Besides, it may be too =
much advanced thought, but I think all official</div><div>gismu and cmavo=
 should be defined in Lojban.</div><div><br></div><div>A language consist=
s of only sequences of symbols regulated by a</div><div>grammar, but the =
universe expressed by a language depends on</div><div>definitions of word=
s. As long as the words of a language are defined</div><div>by another la=
nguage, the universe is restricted to that can be</div><div>expressed by =
the language used for the definitions. I think the</div><div>universe exp=
ressed by Lojban should be liberated from the other</div><div>languages.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Looking up words in la jbovlaste, Lojban definit=
ions were already</div><div>given to most of official cmavo by la xorxes,=
 as well as to some of</div><div>gismu by several people. Maybe we need a=
 systematic group work to</div><div>complete the official Lojban definiti=
ons.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, I suggest all experimental cmavo/gism=
u should be accompanied by</div><div>Lojban definitions. I wish such rest=
riction were included in the</div><div>functions of adding words to la jb=
ovlaste. (Such a function may bring</div><div>also a secondary effect tha=
t anyone who is not a skillful Lojban</div><div>speaker cannot add cmavo/=
gismu that are sometimes annoying to most of</div><div>Lojban speakers.)<=
/div><div><br></div><div>mi'e la guskant mu'o</div><div><br></div><div>=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F</div><div=
>Llg-members mailing list</div><div><a href=3D=22mailto:Llg-members=40loj=
ban.org=22>Llg-members=40lojban.org</a></div><div><a href=3D=22http://mai=
l.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members=22>http://mail.lojban.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/llg-members</a></div></div></div></span>
                =20
                =20
                =20
                =20
                </blockquote>
                =20
                <div>
                    <br>
                </div>
            
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_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
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