Received: from localhost ([::1]:41729 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Yfwns-0001vu-7h; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 13:42:28 -0700 Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com ([209.85.215.54]:33676) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Yfwnl-0001v3-Bx for llg-members@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 13:42:26 -0700 Received: by layy10 with SMTP id y10so75134519lay.0 for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 13:42:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=2PBb+DqvwwyyYpiEFvwPC47KUQXZoW+Fvz7bB/8WT00=; b=yb0ryyvB3zEOnwE7lIvOO3VZqqoqryvqeUWZ0OhhSlusdwi17RyXljotnD5PQPhZmp qdVs9iIUuaQNOa9A+88bacp/PgEqXs0kkZBYmoQplAgTNtVoCca1OoxjdxafynUgoJ3+ nL40WCBgD1LLcLV/aB2YwcFoOZMQCHSEeqKzbXTwhDPLuK0sc/2LdMDZNyj9A7LxNVVA MwUBCs+W/THbaIuHihQml3G99YNBSGYyc0sNsp+OgHCZ6Von/l5/AFEYr6iQtJxRT4p2 ZlzNDB25Jryu3AnjMJrEEmqmDvso0N0YCHpPy6InFBgBPRJ5cHEVhqG1gKoNOlSaSKKQ t78A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.4.72 with SMTP id i8mr1359047lai.29.1428525734310; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 13:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.121.2 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Apr 2015 13:42:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 01:42:14 +0500 Message-ID: From: Ali Sajid Imami To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Detailed Proposal of a Project Manager X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0050864101961954925==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============0050864101961954925== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01494248f239ca05133c90cd --089e01494248f239ca05133c90cd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I don't have the details on how much we make. I would like to see those numbers and then we can come to an agreeable amount that can be paid. I will also do a bit more digging into the time calculations. I may have mixed up my limiters. My financial side is a bit... weak. Regards, Ali Sajid Imami CTO Khabaristan Times On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:38 AM, And Rosta wrote: > LLG doesn't generate anything close to $250 per week, which is what it > would take to pay the contractor for 25 hours per week at $10 per hour on > an ongoing basis. Maybe instead we should work out what LLG could afford, > which is, I take it, an amount no greater than the average weekly profit > generated from CLL sales. What is the average weekly proxy from CLL sales? > Do we know? I'm guessing not much more than $10? That would pay for an hour > a week from the contractor. Would that be enough to accomplish anything > useful? > > Had you thought the financial side of things through, Ali? Maybe I'm > missing something -- certainly my reckoning is not based on any solid > figures. > > And > On 7 Apr 2015 18:46, "Ali Sajid Imami" wrote: > >> I honestly do not have an empirical basis for this, but the 25 hours I >> suggested was based on the current and projected social media activity, and >> the volume of chat in #lojban. I think 25 hours is probably the ceiling. >> >> Also, I had the US minimum wage in mind more than PK minimum wage. The >> reasoning being the massive conversion gap: 1 USD is approximately 100 PKR. >> So a US minimum wage ish thing, between $8 to $10 an hour. We need a >> project manager, not a sweatshop worker. This would arguably be expensive >> but we can honestly check the efficacy and see if it's worth it. Just as a >> comparison, a laborer who has a job here makes more than $12.50. Somewhat >> around $15. >> >> I think we can do a discussion about the hour estimation, and sign this >> person on for a 3 month trial. If they work out, we sign them on for 9 more >> months. And from that point on, we get the contract annually. >> >> Also, to answer your question, And, yes. The person is very quick in >> picking up languages and would learn it in a matter of weeks if the >> conversation keeps happening around her. As in, she doesn't know lojban yet >> but is aware of the principles and is learning it slowly. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> Ali Sajid Imami >> CTO >> Khabaristan Times >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:13 PM, And Rosta wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Ali Sajid Imami < >>> ali.sajid.imami@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I already have a candidate in mind, someone I implicitly trust and have >>>> worked with in similar situations. The willingness will be a huge plus, >>>> although not necessarily a requirement. >>>> >>> >>> Do you mean that your candidate would be willing to work in Lojban when >>> their interlocutors prefer it? That's a big bonus. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I'd calculate the position to be about 25 hours a week. With about 100 >>>> hours a month should be fair. I think we can pay them off LLGs current >>>> account, as a contractor. I know LLG can't have an employee but I think we >>>> are allowed contractors. Something slightly above minimum wage for a person >>>> in Pakistan would be more than enough for this position. >>>> >>> >>> Is there really so much work of the sort you described, 1200 hours per >>> year? I'd have guesstimated 200--400 hours per year, but with very little >>> empirical basis for that. >>> >>> My googling suggests that the full-time PK minimum wage is $110 (USD) >>> per month. On first-world-ish assumptions of a 37 hour week and a month of >>> paid holiday, that's 147 hours per month. So the cost of 1200 hrs per year >>> would be c $75 per month ($900 a year), and the cost of 200--400 hrs per >>> year would be c $12.50--$25 per month ($150--$300 a year). Do those sums >>> match what you had in mind? >>> >>> If so, what about, say, a trial, initially for a year, for $12.50 a >>> month for an average of 16.7 hours a month? Make any necessary adjustments >>> so that the rate of pay is not arseholey or unconscionably exploitative. If >>> it's a roaring success and the funds are available, then it could be >>> increased. >>> >>> --And. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --089e01494248f239ca05133c90cd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't have the details on how much we make. I wou= ld like to see those numbers and then we can come to an agreeable amount th= at can be paid. I will also do a bit more digging into the time calculation= s. I may have mixed up my limiters. My financial side is a bit... weak.


Regards,
Ali Sajid Imami
CTO

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:38 AM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:

LLG doesn't generate anything close to $250 per week,= which is what it would take to pay the contractor for 25 hours per week at= $10 per hour on an ongoing basis. Maybe instead we should work out what LL= G could afford, which is, I take it, an amount no greater than the average = weekly profit generated from CLL sales. What is the average weekly proxy fr= om CLL sales? Do we know? I'm guessing not much more than $10? That wou= ld pay for an hour a week from the contractor. Would that be enough to acco= mplish anything useful?

Had you thought the financial side of things through, Ali? M= aybe I'm missing something -- certainly my reckoning is not based on an= y solid figures.

And

On 7 Apr 2015 18:46, "Ali Sajid Imami"= <ali.saj= id.imami@gmail.com> wrote:
I honestly do not have an empirical basis= for this, but the 25 hours I suggested was based on the current and projec= ted social media activity, and the volume of chat in #lojban. I think 25 ho= urs is probably the ceiling.

Also, I had the US minimum wage in mind= more than PK minimum wage. The reasoning being the massive conversion gap:= 1 USD is approximately 100 PKR. So a US minimum wage ish thing, between $8= to $10 an hour. We need a project manager, not a sweatshop worker. This wo= uld arguably be expensive but we can honestly check the efficacy and see if= it's worth it. Just as a comparison, a laborer who has a job here make= s more than $12.50. Somewhat around $15.

I think we can do a discuss= ion about the hour estimation, and sign this person on for a 3 month trial.= If they work out, we sign them on for 9 more months. And from that point o= n, we get the contract annually.

Also, to answer your question, And,= yes. The person is very quick in picking up languages and would learn it i= n a matter of weeks if the conversation keeps happening around her. As in, = she doesn't know lojban yet but is aware of the principles and is learn= ing it slowly.



= Regards,
Ali Sajid Imami
CTO
<= /div>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:13 PM, And Rosta <= span dir=3D"ltr"><and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Ali Sajid Imami <ali= .sajid.imami@gmail.com> wrote:
= I already have a candidate in mind, someone I implicitly trust and have wor= ked with in similar situations. The willingness will be a huge plus, althou= gh not necessarily a requirement.

Do you mean that your candidate would be willing to work in L= ojban when their interlocutors prefer it? That's a big bonus.

=C2=A0

I'd = calculate the position to be about 25 hours a week. With about 100 hours a = month should be fair. I think we can pay them off LLGs current account, as = a contractor. I know LLG can't have an employee but I think we are allo= wed contractors. Something slightly above minimum wage for a person in Paki= stan would be more than enough for this position.=C2=A0

Is there really so much work of the sort yo= u described, 1200 hours per year? I'd have guesstimated 200--400 hours = per year, but with very little empirical basis for that.

My googling suggests that the full-time PK minimum wage is $110 (USD= ) per month. On first-world-ish assumptions of a 37 hour week and a month o= f paid holiday, that's 147 hours per month. So the cost of 1200 hrs per= year would be c $75 per month ($900 a year), and the cost of 200--400 hrs = per year would be c $12.50--$25 per month ($150--$300 a year). Do those sum= s match what you had in mind?=C2=A0

If so, what ab= out, say, a trial, initially for a year, for $12.50 a month for an average = of 16.7 hours a month? Make any necessary adjustments so that the rate of p= ay is not arseholey or unconscionably exploitative. If it's a roaring s= uccess and the funds are available, then it could be increased.
=

--And.

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


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