Received: from localhost ([::1]:35297 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1atUW1-0002uY-MP; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 23:24:33 -0700 Received: from mail-lf0-f48.google.com ([209.85.215.48]:34492) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1atUVv-0002uS-D7 for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 23:24:32 -0700 Received: by mail-lf0-f48.google.com with SMTP id j11so73463347lfb.1 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 23:24:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=sQ0DCtzTu2ebMien/Hhf5udcj+U+Xu6ItYI1Av+df7Y=; b=ddEDVpfutTCvIiy0i7pG4TKzEbSveImby+rcLX1yzRZ0EZ8MI5JQdWO3Sggh+GYT38 EeeRCOBMTUKbIc1zDeDHYyB0SUXO/HO2/MekUxfGt/oy9UztHBBQeDnzWK5Fv105IIoR uoNFiK3b5wKGoMgp6PFPho6RhKkYXCNaBUzxtDaJMV7uOuOALZ3jZa1Do3ZniUnHpYEs u/hFvt596fuiwK/N4N7LJG9HE5nGsJ81o6b4RS0HVXv1NFel0kLLKJr91CQDn4vvwNJp XNss33uYOqSd44tgqImKFZF4WKVkxsZ+Uw4Y9eqvIzTiWKVN7ve/hUjWDANco0XCNXFg 89Dg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=sQ0DCtzTu2ebMien/Hhf5udcj+U+Xu6ItYI1Av+df7Y=; b=ROg1eDHPlrf7LvlwtaSR9kbKT+G5y5eCXjp2kvbvkmQHvqKHgw/zxr241kGbtQEP6x IEAzBmVu8E56ZzhMzpX4W33DN3tL1KDGZTxh6Lln6H2YuiPSIEV3mG5gq+7uKilyZXmG RBCpUijMMOisehMcw/g6rXhffc9BxLUFAAMShJwhgKlGNq1bjPvaKoKiLKM+BEp10h7T oU3gzHcUhdopoPJ7IzF0SC9ojJTqrd6dWxgZP0cvd/CaiiDbY4EvMQHs1Giu3hu+GGR4 yKjKzUYcdogCnKGV33yFUYAyT3fHmz5OTmMdphFNS5u/WcwTJ2phDpFpkKWxlaCDzXno uBsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FUzvd04VCDIPOwF9TTAyVrUDWLMYUwp84bPlHGGpZQgqLhIpW/2WMNIdk7D2IKSJcpPDWdsA2q8CHSjUw== X-Received: by 10.25.25.7 with SMTP id 7mr6640265lfz.166.1461306260175; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 23:24:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.144.229 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 23:23:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5719366B.7010300@lojban.org> References: <571271C9.7050002@lojban.org> <1533522.sVHHld6LrL@caracal> <0748C06D-7DE6-4F31-BB71-58215BF60729@gmail.com> <5718BD2E.1040003@selpahi.de> <5719366B.7010300@lojban.org> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 09:23:40 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Annual meeting: NB-Website_Jurisdiction X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8880651359770200981==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============8880651359770200981== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114020168bc2ac05310ce0a8 --001a114020168bc2ac05310ce0a8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2016-04-21 23:22 GMT+03:00 Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG < lojbab@lojban.org>: > On 4/21/2016 7:48 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > >> Partially relevant to this. I'm a bit concerned that no one but me has >> been adding new members to the wiki. >> People make requests but no one seems to be seeing them. >> > > I think that a lot of the problem is that Robin, although he has total > power, has delegated aspects of that power to all sorts of people, but > possibly no one but him has any idea who those people are. > > I personally have no authorities that I know of; I wouldn't know how to > add people to the wiki even if I saw a request, (I don't even see the > requests which means that they don't go to lojban@lojban.org). I'm not > even sure that I have "membership" in the wiki, whatever that entails; I > haven't modified anything on a wiki system since two or three wiki systems > ago. It is possible that no one besides you even has a possibility of > seeing them. > That's true for 90% of what you said. What's is more very few people do anything but adding simple wiki pages with content about something new in Lojban, Lojbanology or Lojbanistan. So what I am saying that we need not only a new administrator but more ACTIVE administrators. Necessary permissions have been given to me (mi'e la gleki), Mukti, Selpahi, Guskant, Ilmen, Tsani, probably some more people. But it seems we need more people. > I hope la mukti will reply and add read-only access to >> thelogicallanguagegroup@gmail.com >> to more people so that they >> get notifications for each new account request pending. >> > > How would someone know to send an email there? Sorry, let me explain. The wiki itself sends information that someone wants an account to this address. This is how Robin and I made this wiki. The address is easy to change, of course. The problem is that demize, an active Lojbanists is ready to help us but Mukti is too busy to reply to my emails to give demize read-only access to the e-mail address. > The official email address for LLG is lojban@lojban.org, which is read > by several people. I presume that Robin also has a webmaster@lojban.org, > but I don't know who that goes to. (I think that there is also a > president@lojban.org and a secretary@lojban.org, but I doubt that anyone > knows them or uses them) > > What *may* be the situation is that you rebuilt the wiki in its current > form (I think I recall that you were doing so), and that Robin then > switched the LLG home page to it from the prior wiki system (and may or may > not have deleted the old system), which is why guskant sees it as being in > "your" directory - that is where you built it. I don't know what guskant is trying to say. The whole wiki consists of personal opinions. Take a well-known la jbofi'e parser. http://www.lojban.org/jboski Nothing is said that it is not an official parser. The list goes on and on. I once made proposals to explicitly mark everything as official/unofficial but 1. my voice wasn't loud enough 2. there were too few people to hear me 3. those who heard performed other useful activity in Lojbanistan (as I hope) > So you ended up as the sole "administrator" (other than Robin) because > no one else has any idea what being administrator means (except guskant) > Or they were too busy to do so. And yes, la guskant and la mukti performed something that is definitely administrative and requiring administrative privileges (with la mukti actually having more power since he knew the backend of the wiki and was able to improve wiki's performance). > Meanwhile, I know that Robin has distributed administrator functions to > various people so as to keep the system up even if he goes incommunicado. > I don't know who he has distributed that authority to and/or whether they > have access to your directory/the wiki. > Ali and Mukti definitely had credentials to reboot the wiki, fix the server-side issues in case Robin's servers are still reachable via network. > > It seems clear that someone should know where all the keys to the kingdom > are, and to whom those keys have been distributed, and that someone should > probably be an LLG officer, probably mukti. This is really just part of > the slow and continuing process of transitioning away from Robin, who > previously held that job, and never established a clear boundary of > responsibility between his official position and his position as > webmaster/machine-owner. > I'd be happy if la mukti could quickly reply to our requests. Who else wants? Please, speak up. > lojbab > > > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > --001a114020168bc2ac05310ce0a8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2016-04-21 23:22 GMT+03:00 Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG= <lojbab@lojban.org>:
O= n 4/21/2016 7:48 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
Partially relevant to this. I'm a bit concerned that no one but me has<= br> been adding new members to the wiki.
People make requests but no one seems to be seeing them.

 I think that a lot of the problem is that Robin, although he has total powe= r, has delegated aspects of that power to all sorts of people, but possibly= no one but him has any idea who those people are.

I personally have no authorities that I know of; I wouldn't know how to= add people to the wiki even if I saw a request, (I don't even see the = requests which means that they don't go to lojban@lojban.org).=C2=A0 I'm not even s= ure that I have "membership" in the wiki, whatever that entails; = I haven't modified anything on a wiki system since two or three wiki sy= stems ago.=C2=A0 It is possible that no one besides you even has a possibil= ity of seeing them.


That= 's true for 90% of what you said.
What's is more very few= people do anything but adding simple wiki pages with content about somethi= ng new in Lojban, Lojbanology or Lojbanistan.

So w= hat I am saying that we need not only a new administrator but more ACTIVE a= dministrators.
Necessary permissions have been given to me (mi= 9;e la gleki), Mukti, Selpahi, Guskant, Ilmen, Tsani, probably some more pe= ople.

But it seems we need more people.
=


I hope la mukti will reply and add read-only access to
thel= ogicallanguagegroup@gmail.com
 <mailto:thelogicallanguagegroup@gmail.com> to more people so that the= y
get notifications for each new account request pending.

How would someone know to send an email there?

<= div>Sorry, let me explain. The wiki itself sends information that someone w= ants an account to this address.
This is how Robin and I made thi= s wiki. The address is easy to change, of course.

= The problem is that demize, an active Lojbanists is ready to help us but Mu= kti is too busy to reply to my emails to give demize read-only access to th= e e-mail address.

=C2=A0
=C2= =A0 The official email address for LLG is lojban@lojban.org, which is read by several peopl= e. I presume that Robin also has a webmaster@lojban.org, but I don't know who that g= oes to.=C2=A0 (I think that there is also a president@lojban.org and a secretary@lojban.org, but I do= ubt that anyone knows them or uses them)

What *may* be the situation is that you rebuilt the wiki in its current for= m (I think I recall that you were doing so), and that Robin then switched t= he LLG home page to it from the prior wiki system (and may or may not have = deleted the old system), which is why guskant sees it as being in "you= r" directory - that is where you built it.

=
I don't know what guskant is trying to say. The whole wiki consist= s of personal opinions. Take a well-known la jbofi'e parser.

Nothing is said that it is not an official pars= er.
The list goes on and on.

I once made= proposals to explicitly mark everything as official/unofficial but
1. my voice wasn't loud enough
2. there were too few peopl= e to hear me
3. those who heard performed other useful activity i= n Lojbanistan (as I hope)


=C2=A0
=C2=A0 So you ended up as the sole "administrator&= quot; (other than Robin) because no one else has any idea what being admini= strator means (except guskant)

Or they = were too busy to do so.
And yes, la guskant and la mukti performe= d something that is definitely administrative and requiring administrative = privileges (with la mukti actually having more power since he knew the back= end of the wiki and was able to improve wiki's performance).
=

Meanwhile, I know that Robin has distributed administrator functions to var= ious people so as to keep the system up even if he goes incommunicado.=C2= =A0 I don't know who he has distributed that authority to and/or whethe= r they have access to your directory/the wiki.

Ali and Mukti definitely had credentials to reboot the wiki, fix th= e server-side issues in case Robin's servers are still reachable via ne= twork.
=C2=A0

It seems clear that someone should know where all the keys to the kingdom a= re, and to whom those keys have been distributed, and that someone should p= robably be an LLG officer, probably mukti.=C2=A0 This is really just part o= f the slow and continuing process of transitioning away from Robin, who pre= viously held that job, and never established a clear boundary of responsibi= lity between his official position and his position as webmaster/machine-ow= ner.

I'd be happy if la mukti could= quickly reply to our requests.=C2=A0

Who else wan= ts? Please, speak up.


lojbab



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs

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