Received: from localhost ([::1]:51314 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1av74b-0005hD-5U; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:46:57 -0700 Received: from mail-lf0-f46.google.com ([209.85.215.46]:34710) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1av74V-0005h0-6F for llg-members@lojban.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:46:55 -0700 Received: by mail-lf0-f46.google.com with SMTP id j11so27518619lfb.1 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:46:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=J2sANScV1FFawjVk3vcmXXcskNjYsq+03SRtOVVH6Gg=; b=faFhPfX3wks5gulkhnrfEHD+60EQsF1rX3RZcfnqnl7pBtfeBykZnyHM6s3t4bLANX SSBOj7T57ZTFS4G6fkvFRk+oBqKDgVR0leBqYV6nPIukPZPORzDXWQ7tEyg7iCFFV08s nIwhjYDGFsgUyG+Ql+0iFcsSPYFVzhyvmiomzk/scjCuksSaI6HiHU/jOM4Oos6Rk61y r4wnxUx2wjsfnTqa+DLggCPdr9Ikqv54TvqsAy0/NvQ+CFu9guJnh+QP2RslZj2Bc8d6 UtA2pOIfysvZsL2kU24BcPJGHeRZ1IbBBz1VXft/kj+QYatB5EZeHF+hFIjfZ5ZszUeG +Vug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=J2sANScV1FFawjVk3vcmXXcskNjYsq+03SRtOVVH6Gg=; b=WQtCLkh/gceYCLLR1Xxm8EXNtFbKmrSgMPUMdmonzqjS3Lrpo2SLZsAtVcNZvv3GXB /N/tSWWXiXcnM1SjIjCHR9G33BAf4xtV12G4J79eIM6KsB3UQKYyPilFscJHJv0O53hX rEHhWpTdwSqOE7dp3rXEiAWRr/SUphFE2Kz0yV2V1kYTBTNePwDwzmvSRf/AWxoZsau2 5WaeqetT5E889jRBMNCC7WNUs9UCjG+7wvkQBM+I60LJ9faVMmZKOdldTyer2CWaJWji XggkzKBTPB3fPygnyVOWs6UJ0U17Tadc4UQVWYozhlc/8W1+H9syJCeYasZF2oEwAkfh DyrQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FWRRGxXL+k9XzPIanY8Z95EWGvg2WX5lUOwLa0K+hexrQ2LfN3IgtcKDkteyR+tZIEb8CYn90BwbBiO/Q== X-Received: by 10.25.35.145 with SMTP id j139mr1556359lfj.55.1461692803953; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:46:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.144.229 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:46:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <571EA53F.6040906@lojban.org> <2A767C1B-DA0E-49F5-931C-1F61D5ECDD86@gmail.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:46:04 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.0 X-Spam_score_int: -9 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Community Manager position? X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8471469561617866765==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============8471469561617866765== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113aa8d459bae9053166e0bf --001a113aa8d459bae9053166e0bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2016-04-26 20:39 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > But if a decision has already de facto been made then de jure equality has > no basis in reality. I agree with this concern. > De facto people have formed opinions before the meeting even starts in any form. Anyway, if everyone is comfortable with such long meeting so well. On Apr 26, 2016 13:14, "Gleki Arxokuna" wrote: > >> >> >> 2016-04-26 20:08 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein : >> >>> Done this way excludes some people from the possibility of participating >>> during the discussion. >>> >> >> It certainly does not. IRC won't replace the meeting this way. Only >> shrink the time needed for other members to form a position. >> >> >> >>> If they have to wait until the discussion has been basically been >>> completed on IRC before being able to participate them their comments will >>> not hold the same weight. >>> >> >> Your weight as a member of LLG is the same as of others. >> >> As one of the people probably in this position I will say I would be less >>> invested and feel less like being involved in the meetings. In this case I >>> believe that going with the slower, more inclusive methods of discussion is >>> necessary. >>> >>> .karis. >>> >>> On April 26, 2016 2:34:48 AM EDT, Gleki Arxokuna >> gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2016-04-26 2:16 GMT+03:00 Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG >>>> : >>>> >>>>> On 4/25/2016 2:25 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2016-04-24 22:08 GMT+03:00 Riley Lynch >>>>> >: >>>>>> >>>>>> We have had international IRC sessions before, so I don't see the >>>>>> challenges of scheduling as prohibitive. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And exactly what happened last time is that < 100% of members found >>>>>> the >>>>>> designated time uncomfortable. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If we are talking about LLG member meetings, when last this was done, >>>>> Nick Nicolas in Australia was the person with the most difficult >>>>> participation >>>> >>>> >>>> I was talking about out last meeting where discussions were partially >>>> held in IRC. >>>> The same can be done this time. >>>> I simply suggest that when possible we should not discuss anything here >>>> but instead in IRC where we form a common position. >>>> Someone posts a resume of IRC meetings here and what we do in this >>>> mailing list is just confirm our position and correct the resume. >>>> This will save a lot of time. >>>> Other members not participating in IRC part of the meeting can continue >>>> using this mailing list for any discussions. Since such people won't be >>>> numerous they won't make the meeting much longer. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> , and he was more flexible than most people could be. Other than him, >>>>> the time zones ranged from the US Pacific coast to central Europe, I think >>>>> a 9 hour range. Nowadays, we have Ali in Pakistan (+12), gleki in Russia >>>>> (+10), and guskant in Japan (+16), all outside of that 9 hour range (plus >>>>> numbers are hours relative to Pacific Daylight time. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, so e.g. we could cut out from IRC meetings gleki and Ali since >>>> they stand apart from other people in terms of timezones. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>> >>>> >>> -- Karen Stein -- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --001a113aa8d459bae9053166e0bf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2016-04-26 20:39 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gma= il.com>:

But= if a decision has already de facto been made then de jure equality has no = basis in reality. I agree with this concern.

De facto = people have formed opinions before the meeting even starts in any form.
Anyway, if everyone is comfortable with such long meeting so well.

On Apr 26, 2016 13:14, "Gleki Arxokuna"= ; <gleki= .is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2016-04-26 20:08 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein <comcaresv= cs@gmail.com>:
Done th= is way excludes some people from the possibility of participating during th= e discussion.

It certainly does not. = IRC won't replace the meeting this way. Only shrink the time needed for= other members to form a position.

=C2=A0
If they have to wait until the discussion= has been basically been completed on IRC before being able to participate = them their comments will not hold the same weight.
<= br>
Your weight as a member of LLG is the same as of others.

As one of the people p= robably in this position I will say I would be less invested and feel less = like being involved in the meetings. In this case I believe that going with= the slower, more inclusive methods of discussion is necessary.

.karis.

On April 26, 2016 2:34:= 48 AM EDT, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2016-04-26 2:16 GMT+03:00 Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG = <lojbab@lojban.org>:
On 4/25/2016 = 2:25 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:


2016-04-24 22:08 GMT+03:00 Riley Lynch <shunpiker@gmail.com
 <mailto:shunpik= er@gmail.com>>:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We have had international IRC sessions before, so I don't= see the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 challenges of scheduling as prohibitive.


And exactly what happened last time is that < 100% of members found the<= br> designated time uncomfortable.

If we are talking about LLG member meetings, when last this was done, Nick = Nicolas in Australia was the person with the most difficult participation

I was talking about out last meeting where d= iscussions were partially held in IRC.
The same can be done this = time.=C2=A0
I simply suggest that when possible we should not dis= cuss anything here but instead in IRC where we form a common position.
Someone posts a resume of IRC meetings here and what we do in this ma= iling list is just confirm our position and correct the resume.
T= his will save a lot of time.
Other members not participating in I= RC part of the meeting can continue using this mailing list for any discuss= ions. Since such people won't be numerous they won't make the meeti= ng much longer.


=C2=A0
, and he was more flexible than most people could be. Other than = him, the time zones ranged from the US Pacific coast to central Europe, I t= hink a 9 hour range.=C2=A0 Nowadays, we have Ali in Pakistan (+12), gleki i= n Russia (+10), and guskant in Japan (+16), all outside of that 9 hour rang= e (plus numbers are hours relative to Pacific Daylight time.

Yeah, so e.g. we could cut out from IRC meetings glek= i and Ali since they stand apart from other people in terms of timezones.

Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


-- Karen Stein --

_________________________________= ______________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs


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