Received: from localhost ([::1]:42108 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cWiIv-0000TY-DN; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 03:33:25 -0800 Received: from mail-yb0-f180.google.com ([209.85.213.180]:33943) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cWiIn-0000TJ-NR for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 03:33:22 -0800 Received: by mail-yb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id j82so37731860ybg.1 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 03:33:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=9SnyuWZGM5XQyK1rKiwWQf7iBFOL22KxaKZExy29hc8=; b=jDUrbbYMFGLyLu5ndZw/O6uUIhDou5tP8PAc6PBtuFYuTkM0qWxC0fXgrxtMqRM2Tg tkPZ1KWpjNfCZcHq/ruL/spPuF3aIec3heoGjb1mbqeFl7A5Y0PticIO7k4vgHnor4lY yTf9gUYmnL7Dx94RgGL4GK6LBXkG0MAK7z2FOtLV+3WqtnBzGsTXaBaPswiXKeLnRgOQ c/31STUOrffJhgpC4h3QCNa0Ir7/fSKxK/vOYNwBiTK/ycU8Fj4wRzcPQuaXLF87R/gp d5h8AdNfekLbQ1wLqai+tuddBWAPXEJVXC3G2dwyT15dwkasTI27ITEZaCeWWgrYbz/z O47g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=9SnyuWZGM5XQyK1rKiwWQf7iBFOL22KxaKZExy29hc8=; b=RyMrrXhKqKzSmvg0Wnfx22ZG7YWa349DMj++HvqhwSMA4APBhPpHDOLhYpOw8Fty+5 zBiZVsqX36LKv0oZzAjoTvflsjiBzKh+P1AloZg6P4xrDRf/iYw4u6yxnCS//csRZnb2 kOeVzqI6v0jZXlwos3WDSPz4Bd67lWNaRzB6sl3eGN4vxa7ooNiR+63j7FLfPa6d9c/H oGknexZ/q5F6PdL85Fv7X3CExqYce8v+3VA2cApnzgJq7Dgt/DBt+fMWOfRKiygzbUzU PCvqKDTLUGf0rD+Jn3Wyrfn5i60mOJEF3JbonIAptIz2r8Vd5rtX1Edsg/KmYKoOcaOe 4oHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXI1IpgGhn6tnvk/LjV9P3x0ph3IDL8KsczGR1kW/vd25Bd40N1HBdjjJ0+iG6Vu3y98JsNhHTNXSbLINg== X-Received: by 10.129.67.38 with SMTP id q38mr1451938ywa.308.1485430390562; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 03:33:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.171.2 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 03:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.171.2 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 03:33:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: And Rosta Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 11:33:10 +0000 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] 2016 Annual Meeting: report on a documentary film X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0215171039721543323==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============0215171039721543323== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045f2d96c4b4c60546fdb61a --f403045f2d96c4b4c60546fdb61a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 26 Jan 2017 05:05, "guskant" wrote: 2017-01-25 18:11 GMT+00:00 And Rosta : > some character claims that Lojban is culturally > biased against Malayo-Polynesian cultures because their languages contain > glottal stops; yet English contains glottal stops too. As for the words "culturally biased", the character blamed only the experimental selma'o, not the official Lojban. No matter whether an English word contains glottal stops inside, the grammatical structure of those experimental selma'o in question relies on a property of a target string of the structure that it does not contain a glottal stop. Such a structure necessarily excludes some languages from being a target of it. My reasoning, which I'd failed to articulate, is that the cultures that selma'o is biased against include that arch-hegemon English. So yes there is a bias, but in a direction both random and opposite to the usual direction of bias. The objection to that experimental selma'o would as much be that it is foolish as that it is culturally biased. But I gather that the documentary is a history of recent lojbanology, and therefore the ideas are selected for their historical significance, not for any inherent merits. Anyway, congratulations, Guskant, for your labour of love. --And. --f403045f2d96c4b4c60546fdb61a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 26 Jan 2017 05:05, "guskant" <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:
2017-01-25 18:1= 1 GMT+00:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@= gmail.com>:
> some character claims that Lojban is culturally
> biased against Malayo-Polynesian cultures because their languages cont= ain
> glottal stops; yet English contains glottal stops too.

As for the words "culturally biased", the character blamed only t= he
experimental selma'o, not the official Lojban. No matter whether an
English word contains glottal stops inside, the grammatical structure
of those experimental selma'o in question relies on a property of a
target string of the structure that it does not contain a glottal
stop. Such a structure necessarily excludes some languages from being
a target of it.

My reasoning, which I'd failed to articulate, is t= hat the =C2=A0cultures that selma'o is biased against include that arch= -hegemon English. So yes there is a bias, but in a direction both random an= d opposite to the usual direction of bias. The objection to that experiment= al selma'o would as much be that it is foolish as that it is culturally= biased. But I gather that the documentary is a history of recent lojbanolo= gy, and therefore the ideas are selected for their historical significance,= not for any inherent merits.

Anyway, congratulations, Guskant, for your labour of love.

--And.
--f403045f2d96c4b4c60546fdb61a-- --===============0215171039721543323== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============0215171039721543323==--