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Sat, 18 Feb 2017 21:23:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2017 00:23:02 -0500 In-Reply-To: References: <043FA78B-0C3C-4A53-A408-51C436A808C0@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: llg-members@lojban.org From: Karen Stein Message-ID: <495C4172-0320-4C3D-9144-BECB477D71D3@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] 2016 Annual Meeting of the Logical Language Group, Inc. - call to order and roll call X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8613089152871991934==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============8613089152871991934== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----2B9IUY1BSYL2GAXVK9CC3UCFKUG2B0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------2B9IUY1BSYL2GAXVK9CC3UCFKUG2B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with lojbab that submitting reports in advance would speed up the m= eetings themselves=2E Waiting for these causes many of our least productive= time lags=2E Time taken up by discussion is, however, productive=2E=20 =2Ekaris=2E On February 13, 2017 12:58:10 PM EST, Bob LeChevalier wrote: >On 2/12/2017 9:47 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >> >> >> 2017-02-12 16:26 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein > >: >> >> While I can see they could speed up the meetings proper, I still >> have the same problems with holding our discussions in this way=2E >> >> The first, and to me most significant, is that not everyone (and >I >> believe more than mukti believes) are not available for regular >IRC >> conversations=2E Speaking as one person for whom this is true I do >not >> see making comments during the meeting in response to the prior >> discussion will receive any where near the consideration of that >> given to those during the IRC conversation=2E Once people develop >an >> opinion on a topic it is significantly more difficult to change >> their views than if the new insights are presented during the >> initial conversation=2E This leaves input of anyone who has >familial >> or other restrictions on IRC use (including any caused by >> disabilities, for instance) at a distinct disadvantage and could >> leave people feeling unimportant when really everyone has >valuable >> ideas=2E Lojban is not only important to younger people who are >more >> likely to be without family and other obligations, or whom are >the >> most technologically savvy=2E Such people should not feel or be >left >> behind=2E >> >> Second, the issue of timing is also important particularly in >light >> of the above=2E If people are having difficulty joining in >> conversations due to issues other than time zone, rotating the >start >> times may boot help=2E Further, such rotation just makes many not >able >> to join in on a particular topic, then a somewhat different >> selection of people not able to join in the next time=2E It means >even >> more fragmented participation=2E >> >> Email discussion is more lengthy, but much more inclusive=2E That >is >> why i am not comfortable with this proposed change=2E >> >> >> >> One again I have to repeat my proposal if Riley's conflicts with >mine: >> >> conduct meetings in IRC PARTIALLY since we have to wait for other >> members to appear=2E >> The logs of IRC meetings would be posted to this mailing list so that >> others can add their replies=2E >> >> This way nothing would really change and meetings would become more >> fruitful=2E > >I think that would work well with my understanding of mukti's old=20 >suggestion that requires that meeting motions be posted in advance of=20 >the meeting (and included in the agenda)=2E Then both IRC and mailing=20 >list can be used for discussion, and possibly for friendly amendments=2E= =20 >But votes would be taken only via mailing list=2E > >We could allow motions to be made at any time of year, with the member=20 >making the motion on this list specifying that it be referred to the=20 >next meeting, or decided more immediately by the Board, which is=20 >essentially in permanent meeting=2E > >We could also cut member meeting duration by asking all reports to be=20 >submitted in advance of the meeting, cutting the time spent waiting for > >those reports to be posted=2E > >lojbab > > >_______________________________________________ >Llg-members mailing list >Llg-members@lojban=2Eorg >http://mail=2Elojban=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/llg-members ------2B9IUY1BSYL2GAXVK9CC3UCFKUG2B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with lojbab that submitting reports in adv= ance would speed up the meetings themselves=2E Waiting for these causes man= y of our least productive time lags=2E Time taken up by discussion is, howe= ver, productive=2E

=2Ekaris=2E

On February 13, 2017 12:58:1= 0 PM EST, Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban=2Eorg> wrote:
On 2/12/2017 9:47 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:


 2017-02-12 16:26=
 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein <comcaresvcs@gmail=2Ecom
 <mailto:comcare=
svcs@gmail=2Ecom>>:

     While I can see they could speed =
up the meetings proper, I still
     have the same problems with holdi=
ng our discussions in this way=2E

     The first, and to me most=
 significant, is that not everyone (and I
     believe more than mukti=
 believes) are not available for regular IRC
     conversations=2E Spe=
aking as one person for whom this is true I do not
     see making com=
ments during the meeting in response to the prior
     discussion will=
 receive any where near the consideration of that
     given to those =
during the IRC conversation=2E Once people develop an
     opinion on =
a topic it is significantly more difficult to change
     their views =
than if the new insights are presented during the
     initial convers=
ation=2E This leaves input of anyone who has familial
     or other re=
strictions on IRC use (including any caused by
     disabilities, for =
instance) at a distinct disadvantage and could
     leave people feeli=
ng unimportant when really everyone has valuable
     ideas=2E Lojban =
is not only important to younger people who are more
     likely to be=
 without family and other obligations, or whom are the
     most techn=
ologically savvy=2E Such people should not feel or be left
     behind=
=2E

     Second, the issue of timing is also important particula=
rly in light
     of the above=2E If people are having difficulty join=
ing in
     conversations due to issues other than time zone, rotating=
 the start
     times may boot help=2E Further, such rotation just mak=
es many not able
     to join in on a particular topic, then a somewha=
t different
     selection of people not able to join in the next time=
=2E It means even
     more fragmented participation=2E

   =
  Email discussion is more lengthy, but much more inclusive=2E That is
     why i am not comfortable with this proposed change=2E



 One again I have to repeat my proposal if Riley's conflicts with m=
ine:

 conduct meetings in IRC PARTIALLY since we have to wait fo=
r other
 members to appear=2E
 The logs of IRC meetings would be =
posted to this mailing list so that
 others can add their replies=2E
 This way nothing would really change and meetings would become m=
ore
 fruitful=2E

I think that would work well = with my understanding of mukti's old
suggestion that requires that me= eting motions be posted in advance of
the meeting (and included in th= e agenda)=2E Then both IRC and mailing
list can be used for discussi= on, and possibly for friendly amendments=2E
But votes would be taken = only via mailing list=2E

We could allow motions to be made at an= y time of year, with the member
making the motion on this list specif= ying that it be referred to the
next meeting, or decided more immedia= tely by the Board, which is
essentially in permanent meeting=2E
=
We could also cut member meeting duration by asking all reports to be=
submitted in advance of the meeting, cutting the time spent waiting = for
those reports to be posted=2E

lojbab


=

Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban=2Eorg
http://mai= l=2Elojban=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/llg-members
<= /div> ------2B9IUY1BSYL2GAXVK9CC3UCFKUG2B0-- --===============8613089152871991934== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============8613089152871991934==--