Received: from localhost ([::1]:54382 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cfZsP-0000hT-RT; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:22:41 -0800 Received: from mail-ua0-f177.google.com ([209.85.217.177]:33184) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cfZs3-0000gZ-Ck for llg-members@lojban.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:22:25 -0800 Received: by mail-ua0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 62so197108uar.0 for ; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:22:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=hHFgX3SVIVI50ZZnX0VjLoPyK+u691Fp+l9+IYNzj0s=; b=gCXwOtF0NMYzMn//cXOeFD5NMEbNFNaemj88ExIYw/Atjn5CCqBe+Gh1vDibJqV0Wh cUw25a+QjmaXr0D0yhk2wHIFbSLKSPcgZD43LrjdidTzSW6yAt6wTzDzoyAdr97qrrM3 RUklK4V1ON3AV42UFax+vDYSeTdRzAeyNFvCEAuBVLTTf7vZerTBXgctHhdGwFd1Dg97 JNx2B7FsxMa6LZVTMtiTmbTstQDHn4DARrFfJg0yHBf7dcdHAp60qFX35mbQ+j/b0+ko ntsl+PTDMVcOa3g5THTCc6OPsekSGXrj+Yv4FFENYwLk81AEQrR1aQWPLRhZMPtKC4r4 whrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=hHFgX3SVIVI50ZZnX0VjLoPyK+u691Fp+l9+IYNzj0s=; b=lHClqyO9fy/05tRDXUZv/DgionLR84W5kllqEGJt9AEq32uaggSekvfmxi49RuJgvL BOUC15aFUwyPzWqhsjypkcM2uhjUL+sI2M1Qqitk4822qvVVob3k6In/Bgtw0zjid6uf dUgZivgm8PIsS/9hVUwcFhMSkzhnNz7zEvFSIwWDoreh3cYYmVBoDtGIWbRGOntBJaZF YFPPiRMKqYm904HA7k+fI4RnpysWGfVUI7w3wk+uTeXuaV9tNVEH/iH8wLek61WtPqia 5M5JecwIo9wZL3thCExtqYECtgdgP2XIvhxufYpm5KYOOQJLwUHg43mCRkeZp5zNccF5 BdPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39mF4GxuRkTiQ6oR1n+ya+WI6Ap+Q8PogX5X0l0RuX2Fryn9J1DpHguj7vTsAfcxB9NyKz2Q6Sn8OpOT0A== X-Received: by 10.159.40.101 with SMTP id c92mr7875130uac.111.1487542932506; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:22:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.6.202 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.176.6.202 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:22:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87967684-FDC0-47DB-8E9B-302231642AC6@gmail.com> References: <043FA78B-0C3C-4A53-A408-51C436A808C0@gmail.com> <921C62E1-F312-4C18-9D6D-5F8955981DDB@gmail.com> <3AEAC315-7D5E-41BE-87B8-D3C498978069@gmail.com> <87967684-FDC0-47DB-8E9B-302231642AC6@gmail.com> From: Curtis Franks Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2017 17:22:11 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] 2016 Annual Meeting of the Logical Language Group, Inc. - call to order and roll call X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1705450839031037809==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============1705450839031037809== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0480da1491c70548e99484 --94eb2c0480da1491c70548e99484 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I like the idea of a test period, for sure. I too have Karen's concerns, but I am willing to give it a spin because I believe that progress is probably too slow using our current methods, so some sort of fix would be desirable. I agree that the conversation should be book-ended here. The initial proposals and discussion takes place here. Then informal, quick discussion is facilitated by IRC, and then the final period for expressing concerns and official voting will take place here. I think that, if possible, no voting should be allowed on the IRC because the final discussion (which occurs here) could change someone's opinion - if we allow for voting elsewhen/elsewhere, then it removes power from the final phase of discussion. On Feb 19, 2017 16:13, "Karen Stein" wrote: > I am willing to try this method for one year as a test, since I am the > only person expressing concerns at this point. I believe it is important > that it be made clear to participants that it is an unofficial discussion > and no decisions will be made until interested parties have participated in > other modes as well. I propose the topic under discussion be posted here > first and any responses be transcribed to IRC at the time of that > discussion in order to be as inclusive as this method can be. > > At the board meeting following the meeting at which such discussion ours > we should revisit this and solicited commentary both on IRC and in various > chats to see what people feel about it. One important question should be, > "Do you feel your questions, concerns, and ideas were listened to and > addressed?" > > .karis. > > On February 19, 2017 12:52:18 AM EST, Gleki Arxokuna gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> 2017-02-19 8:43 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein : >> >>> 1) Having informal discussions occur on IRC (or anywhere else) all the >>> time is not the same as having discussions of specific proposals before the >>> membership meeting occur in the same way. The latter are discussions of >>> official policy and therefore, i believe, should exclude as few member as >>> possible. IRC discussions do this in all the waits I've already posted. >>> >> >> Okay, so I urge everyone who is able to participate in such discussion to >> do so in the time that la mukti proposed earlier. It will be unofficial and >> all the logs will be posted here for further comments by everyone. >> > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --94eb2c0480da1491c70548e99484 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I like the idea of a test period, for sure. I too have Ka= ren's concerns, but I am willing to give it a spin because I believe th= at progress is probably too slow using our current methods, so some sort of= fix would be desirable.

I agr= ee that the conversation should be book-ended here. The initial proposals a= nd discussion takes place here. Then informal, quick discussion is facilita= ted by IRC, and then the final period for expressing concerns and official = voting will take place here. I think that, if possible, no voting should be= allowed on the IRC because the final discussion (which occurs here) could = change someone's opinion - if we allow for voting elsewhen/elsewhere, t= hen it removes power from the final phase of discussion.

On Feb 19, 2017 16:13, &= quot;Karen Stein" <comcare= svcs@gmail.com> wrote:
I am willing to try this method for one year as a test, sinc= e I am the only person expressing concerns at this point. I believe it is i= mportant that it be made clear to participants that it is an unofficial dis= cussion and no decisions will be made until interested parties have partici= pated in other modes as well. I propose the topic under discussion be poste= d here first and any responses be transcribed to IRC at the time of that di= scussion in order to be as inclusive as this method can be.

At the board meeting following the meeting at which such discussion ours we= should revisit this and solicited commentary both on IRC and in various ch= ats to see what people feel about it. One important question should be, &qu= ot;Do you feel your questions, concerns, and ideas were listened to and add= ressed?"

.karis.

On February 19, 2017 12:52:18 AM = EST, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmai= l.com> wrote:

= 2017-02-19 8:43 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>:
1) Having informal discussions occur on IR= C (or anywhere else) all the time is not the same as having discussions of = specific proposals before the membership meeting occur in the same way. The= latter are discussions of official policy and therefore, i believe, should= exclude as few member as possible. IRC discussions do this in all the wait= s I've already posted.

Okay, so I urge = everyone who is able to participate in such discussion to do so in the time= that la mukti proposed earlier. It will be unofficial and all the logs wil= l be posted here for further comments by everyone.

_________________________________________= ______
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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