Received: from localhost ([::1]:38104 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eTSOl-0003gy-9T; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 05:02:31 -0800 Received: from mail-wm0-f66.google.com ([74.125.82.66]:36523) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eTSOE-0003fu-D6 for llg-members@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 05:02:00 -0800 Received: by mail-wm0-f66.google.com with SMTP id b76so31867413wmg.1 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 05:01:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=DUWEvBZ8klWaJ9amiYo6YAIUkSU37KVOwlQXwv2SKdY=; b=MODrG7mFw4jaVaKs/Y+NSYk3uhbPIyKclaBFILGZd57C3GrkHRh4sqp7dPkZ7DmUPT 6ZYe7f6Q8t0E9LWtgjj4FGKWjzm/GuyVAdKgKj+UHAX04wSr7lpPg+EAgVAtftbLlm36 odiVJsFjNwN8r59GXfFck5ZNZUKiEBGzIPd9wL2jh1JgqN5/gHPOC2g+I9yL3Wft0Ba/ svjzyQbceKtCpH+fu0J/RiwmEQ+ooFQNirScMbIFW8Aei+EulO1m8xomORqi3bybKEM4 5PjWU8i5DdsAx0RPxN7vbEzYbQBMO2P4u6MlSR/631gBtwZSioQV11Q4r9HHUmqtxYex 4Ngw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=DUWEvBZ8klWaJ9amiYo6YAIUkSU37KVOwlQXwv2SKdY=; b=hcVs9kHBRJH9F8OA+ncxfVPvqnLFGngGahz5zZOzGiV0C5xAyVsfK/X7GC4rBlosV+ 19o+s29RKd225wnjeXGVUh6AvWwSgA311dONL3HdwcrIgjZH1dC6KKuEK7qWm9/Snfvb g+tZ9OepbhxGuWYJw5M1cUfKTn9Rm8PV0SHKu9DygODHjXRRDhN+PBDzzH9G1PZ5W7vE 2wbnhAeQGn/Ew28o6MIsYUAMTKfwkMy1TMHdezV1Ww2oHH8JiAFD0YtSi93IdZtsHC5u 4rXjUSr41gWNFjGOlfMkjuvcTfMaoX68X5hG5/EprlaJ1ib/hUKF3MVvuWHjQZdcQf2z hCDw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLM65CvirNjHHEzNMj6zFDU8LcNo7LWoCKL32heYZWFXMwiE+8z G6zLEE4/3K64MQSMi1+9zpUaoQ4JSsdcj9YPSdJd X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovS9i+icSMr0RRztixcc2cYYMT/Kt1TExuJGAgRGQFrR/1Pb5O2CBLKzg8+T8Tz+v7mxbxmB8jxWJTOt540QTI= X-Received: by 10.80.177.153 with SMTP id m25mr27741651edd.181.1514206911477; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 05:01:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.173.219 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 05:01:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <7074953.2veMK8YGUJ@caracal> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 16:01:11 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Unfinished Business: BPFK X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4743282617844727718==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============4743282617844727718== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c228e133cc5056129c570" --f403045c228e133cc5056129c570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" 2017-12-25 15:11 GMT+03:00 guskant : > 2017-12-25 5:51 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna : > > > > > > The source of CLL is published on github.com and can be cloned anywhere. > > E.g. on can make a copy on framagit.org and gitlab.com > > The more copies the more chances this stuff won't be lost. > > > > Since the time CLL can be deployed from docker we nolonger depend on > Robin's > > servers in regard to CLL. > > doi la gleki > > Do you mean the repository governed by the Lojban Coders' Group? > https://github.com/lojban/cll > > I said "we need another place where plural responsible people and no > others can manage the contents", while the Lojban Coders' Group does > not consists of responsible people, but anarchists with no rule [1]. > There is no guarantee that they would not replace the CLL 1.1 with > their own CLL 2.0 as a new "official" version of the CLL. > It's a matter of minutes to clone CLL to another place. Do you have some technical problems? No server is ideal, lightning pu'i hit Google's servers once with losing sensitive users' data. > > > > > A backup of mw.lojban.org might be necessary though. > > > > If my motion in the previous LLG meeting were adopted, mw.lojban.org > would be free from any restriction as an "official" website, and then > it would be unnecessary to make a backup by the official body. > mw.lojban.org and Tiki has historical information. Your motions required either paying for new servers or no preservation of historical data (e.g. history of page editing). For now we can ask Web Admin to publish mediawiki dumps e.g. once a week so that anyone can download them and save in their secret bunkers. > > [1] > The fact that the Lojban Coders' Group does not respect BPFK decisions > was discussed on the public list. See Example 2.1 of the following > message: > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/e94H-wdh5gc/u2tzLm74AQAJ There is no mechanism to respect BPFK's decisions. You said "plural responsible people" but Lojban Coders' Group has more than one LLG member. If all of them are not responsible then speak out what needs to be done. I can see at least 5 accounts apparently related to current LLG members and having merge permissions. How is a new group will be any better? Fear of forking CLL by non-LLG members is justifiable but how to justify the lack of rules+following action? > > > mi'e la guskant > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > --f403045c228e133cc5056129c570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2017-12-25 15:11 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com><= /span>:
2017-12-25 5:51 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:
>
>
> The source of CLL is published on github.com and can be cloned anywhere. > E.g. on can make a copy on framagit.org and gitlab.com
> The more copies the more chances this stuff won't be lost.
>
> Since the time CLL can be deployed from docker we nolonger depend on R= obin's
> servers in regard to CLL.

doi la gleki

Do you mean the repository governed by the Lojban Coders' Group?
https://github.com/lojban/cll

I said "we need another place where plural responsible people and no others can manage the contents", while the Lojban Coders' Group do= es
not consists of responsible people, but anarchists with no rule [1].
There is no guarantee that they would not replace the CLL 1.1 with
their own CLL 2.0 as a new "official" version of the CLL.

It's a matter of minutes to clone CLL to a= nother place. Do you have some technical problems? No server is ideal, ligh= tning pu'i hit Google's servers once with losing sensitive users= 9; data.




>
> A backup of mw.lojban.org might be necessary though.
>

If my motion in the previous LLG meeting were adopted, mw.lojban.org<= br> would be free from any restriction as an "official" website, and = then
it would be unnecessary to make a backup by the official body.

mw.lojban.org = and Tiki has historical information. Your motions required either paying fo= r new servers or no preservation of historical data (e.g. history of page e= diting).

For now we can ask Web Admin to publish m= ediawiki dumps e.g. once a week so that anyone can download them and save i= n their secret bunkers.

=C2=A0

[1]
The fact that the Lojban Coders' Group does not respect BPFK decisions<= br> was discussed on the public list. See Example 2.1 of the following
message:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/= lojban/e94H-wdh5gc/u2tzLm74AQAJ

There is no mechanism to respect BPFK's decisions.

You said "plural responsible people" but=C2=A0L= ojban Coders' Group has more than one LLG member. If all of them are no= t responsible then speak out what needs to be done. I can see at least 5 ac= counts apparently related to current LLG members and having merge permissio= ns.

How is a new group will be any better?

Fear of forking CLL by non-LLG members is justifiable but= how to justify the lack of rules+following action?




mi'e la guskant

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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