Received: from localhost ([::1]:47182 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eUzi5-0000AD-5J; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:48:49 -0800 Received: from mail-yb0-f177.google.com ([209.85.213.177]:43502) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eUzhX-00006U-N3 for llg-members@lojban.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:48:17 -0800 Received: by mail-yb0-f177.google.com with SMTP id w1so16229311ybe.10 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:48:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ft+nftWQHwNlKfujc6Ojf34ZJYvawOEz+gRlNGoxdcg=; b=vZNMUCrLciV/K0t7uMEHPMrI1+vwYmx9Stg0nu7JFKLussAxx5IBP0vzQqLWGO09lO YYHkbyg12ktiQZoPkOvmq2FnS2v7n9TSZgracNgLJkD30f5AktKGjV2rJL46nqO8XT0T 2Ho1COtxGsGV2ubkm9c3Hj97cYILckzlYlAle9P78LGNQvVwJ0ydukFUC4V58B4ItXG4 2eBihlImLHDjaTgsEZJr1sBAA970ROHFYLr6Ym7kuBFND4dz+vCwqSHSQqZR42mkgEKS TWHIcdGcscGa7Y0CUYQqewDI96wu4CJytVWkJgtq9/FFhyMQPuRpQ/3PEUCRFQyI8zTa AkwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ft+nftWQHwNlKfujc6Ojf34ZJYvawOEz+gRlNGoxdcg=; b=QEEKurKmsQf3Ox89x0gL+87j7Nzl6MbUgWgOlTuWppXYv26i5W/I9OJ7KIfbUs5b8g qAchchWxuK8TKgfSLKgIyH+FKVzMUH+sM5Lr8zY27a+kVHcmuomLmZURH8JbfZPTStdc MidtGEq49xpaB/5rrPB0Wt9CmR9PB74RSoes0YIqFejFqHyAh7OMTS2pgLRtY2CoWkk1 sCHzWzzt2GpBTzOYA+rj7lO8gl9Vf/rM049pFlmZlor2kDReoy0UiT3bUN0Z4myponty rut/bTY10dXHH64UzE44LLXYyeiMoU7KQ6GifhUdymloG0HoIfNFbJ8SI1BcuL/WujiO dJRw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJOOkHAQ0Le5YzL0aazJgN4bzg7wJR7avjuGH8XZU7aIUvssphV tZZqlMLxyT6G4tJr0LjeFDNx9uYQjvLK8fcLT/ZgAw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBosHaW0F3ud2TUULA46Xjj5fLCAuGL7W97qy6uj/MJy6+UgQzuU5TaJ4/MxmB3KFPKX/ip2Vcywh++j5OAOJjFo= X-Received: by 10.37.3.147 with SMTP id 141mr24895530ybd.230.1514573288208; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:48:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:47:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Curtis Franks Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 13:47:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Motion proposal - Unofficialness Disclaimer X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7313248911539521398==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============7313248911539521398== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c07b0cd4805505617f127f" --001a11c07b0cd4805505617f127f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B I also move that: There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8B established =E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body =E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which will =E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate =E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with the content of the aforementioned motion proposal =E2=80=8B, provided its passage,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG =E2=80=8B and which shall search for potential violations of the same or appropriate content which should be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not pertaining to only websites or content subject to the aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but does not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bt his motion shall be inactive, vacuous, and =E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if the aforementioned motion proposal does not pass. =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B All of its authority shall be bounded by such policy of the LLG and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any content which is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may search for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially =E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8B desired design, implementation, usage =E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8B of any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer =E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B . The body shall consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8B decision =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B s =E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8B and work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websites and other subjects as to its standards and policies once such are concretely established =E2=80=8B. The LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control over the body and any of its ouput =E2=80=8B and any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its= purview ; the body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict with the decisions of the LLG =E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B . The body shall be composed on the earliest of =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B the first 1 January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after which point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8B four =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8B years and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8B months and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8B be dissolved =E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended =E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80= =8B official action of the LLG; upon it =E2=80=8Bs expiration =E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80=8B , all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to =E2=80=8B and become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8B policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output =E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80= =8B until the LLG =E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwise =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein described (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8B policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to it unless otherwis= e specified by the LLG) ; the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8B membership of the body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8B shall be =E2=80=8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bis appropriate, to be determined later =E2=80=8B; thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membership= shall be under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although any regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the original establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership . =E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constituted shall be determined by th= e LLG during or prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membership.= =E2=80=8B On Dec 29, 2017 02:25, "Curtis Franks" wrote: > I move that: All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must > contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and > managed by voluntary > people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized with > the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly > comply with, official specifications of the same. > > (This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires, related > elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.) > ___ > > It is a little premature, but I raise the following concerns: > =E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be so disclaimed? What co= nstitutes > "official" content for these purposes? How do we review content and, late= r, > disclaimers - particularly in a fashion which is quick enough to handle > edits made by users. > =E2=80=A2 Do we even have the authority to demand or enforce such disclai= mers? The > website is a wiki and, so, can be edited by anyone and can presumably > develop its own community standards. > =E2=80=A2 Is this disclaimer sufficient and sufficiently descriptive for = the > relevant purposes and desires? > --001a11c07b0cd4805505617f127f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B
I also move that:

There shall be
= =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8B
established
=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B
and organi= zed a body
=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority o= f the LLG -=E2=80=8B
which will
=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B
regulate
=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) e= nforce=E2=80=8B
the official implementation and application of LLG po= licy consistent with the content of the aforementioned motion proposal
=E2=80=8B, provided its passage,=E2=80=8B
or any = similar policy of the LLG
=E2=80=8B and which shall search for potential violations of the same o= r appropriate content which should be so disclaimed (regardless of any impl= emented policy or other mandate, and not pertaining to only websites or con= tent subject to the aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such= content but does not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with res= pect to said content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation=E2=80=8B;=C2= =A0
=E2=80=8Bt
his motion shall be inactive, v= acuous, and
=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B
ignore= d if the aforementioned motion proposal does not pass.
=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B
All of its aut= hority shall be bounded by such policy of the LLG and it shall not notify o= r attempt to regulate any content which is not subject to or the subject of= such LLG policy, although it may search for and review such content.=E2=80= =8B
It = will regulate the officially
=E2=80=8B-=E2= =80=8B
d= esired design, implementation, usage
=E2=80= =8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8B
of any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B<= /div>. The bo= dy shall consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The = body shall publish all of its
=E2=80=8Bdeba= te, =E2=80=8B
decision
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
s
=E2=80=8B= , =E2=80=8B
and work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websites and other su= bjects as to its standards and policies once such are concretely establishe= d
=E2=80=8B. The LLG=E2=80=8B
shall retain total ri= ght of oversight and control over the body and any of its ouput
=E2=80=8B and any matter belonging to its domain of pur= pose=E2=80=8B or its purview
; the body shall govern and organize itself and design= and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar
=C2=A0as such does not conflict with the de= cisions of the LLG
=E2=80=8B, including the = contents of this motion=E2=80=8B
. The body shall be composed on the earliest of
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
the first 1 January or first 1 Jun= e after its first membership is chosen, after which point it shall exist fo= r
=E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8B
four
=E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8B
years and six
=E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8B
months and then
=E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8B
be dissolved
=E2=80=8B= , disconstituted,=E2=80=8B
and discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime i= s extended
=E2=80=8B and such expiration is = delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B
official action of the LLG; upon it<= /span>
=E2=80=8Bs=C2=A0
expiration
=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80=8B
, all of its
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B
poli= cy, standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B and become the direct responsibility of=E2= =80=8B
= the LLG and shall persist and remain active and valid
=E2=80=8Bas=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B
<= span style=3D"font-family:"times new roman",serif">policy, standa= rds, work, decisions, and other output
=E2= =80=8B=C2=A0 (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80= =8B=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B explicitly=C2=A0decides o= therwise
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of anot= her body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or shall = have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein described = (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B
policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output
=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to i= t unless otherwise specified by the LLG)
; the
=E2= =80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8B
membership of the body
=E2=80= =8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8B
shall be
=E2=80=8B= selected
=C2=A0in a manner which the LLG decides
= =E2=80=8Bis
=C2=A0appropriate, to be determined later
.<= /span>
=E2=80=8B The name of the body herein consti= tuted shall be determined by the LLG during or prior to, and as part of, th= e selection of its first membership.=E2=80=8B

On Dec 29, 2017 02:25, &quo= t;Curtis Franks" <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:
I move that: All non-o= fficial pages or content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating, at = least, that the website is owned and managed by voluntary
people, and that the marked contents are not nece= ssarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, = let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of the same.
=
(This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's d= esires, related elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.= )
___

It is a little premature, but = I raise the following concerns:
=E2=80=A2 How do we decide whi= ch content should be so disclaimed? What constitutes "official" c= ontent for these purposes? How do we review content and, later, disclaimers= - particularly in a fashion which is quick enough to handle edits made by = users.
=E2=80=A2 Do we even have the authority to demand or enfo= rce such disclaimers? The website is a wiki and, so, can be edited by anyon= e and can presumably develop its own community standards.
=E2=80= =A2 Is this disclaimer sufficient and sufficiently descriptive for the rele= vant purposes and desires?
--001a11c07b0cd4805505617f127f-- --===============7313248911539521398== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============7313248911539521398==--