Received: from localhost ([::1]:43154 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXWBe-0003hg-F3; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 09:53:46 -0800 Received: from mail-yb0-f174.google.com ([209.85.213.174]:42548) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXWB7-0003gi-UT for llg-members@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 09:53:14 -0800 Received: by mail-yb0-f174.google.com with SMTP id j197so1193783ybg.9 for ; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 09:53:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nuuykFY+HqxYW5GD5CbEoZJay+7cffm7LV6ZCE4jWHc=; b=CsVofs6BZUH6Gx1zhbmTlPuBlSMqMh8nrrfFGtOEUgoU7fRmj8AhTmInPb6JuNFIPh NHk+96InOsPknqAQu8Mwsm7/sNI0xKcDBaV2g/qXIQ/YSzy1l3IcHbQP1miCT4sPlszC 7zv8LlRggfOHLWnvdzbnFGAh8xoiDKh3ujGSOIs4vA/Ou61RUeP8epB4Wu4VG9CLfCsj tEqDHaGo82iwuftlcnxQhpB0xvkyjBxXRvxJEyYFn5p7s8rIAJNVGmj6L6XyDZKMhlwV LxA1GE+HRhyHinr5Cm7CXQNcmiXfkUDTrPbxnhmSCCkx7PQBI/6bQlqISCxTjX69v4ky 5GKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=nuuykFY+HqxYW5GD5CbEoZJay+7cffm7LV6ZCE4jWHc=; b=IWMFQKDyJwAPjOmmnwsEw3HmYBFrYPL+22CdcesN2ODFFQE3gD4LdCN4ZqdS0JWRXe uHT+euabT/KpVirgBy2CAiKR057IcCWWo/VcBU6Iscl2gZN/INFE3L7coIvpE2InUzTO 3gsJb/um9mcutLJ4joo6VGt8MC+0WHfBQURGNBfpoYv6JUkwbdgZO8Vb/Alk1Y/YbvFl K0AXeunFy8WeQYuqBDn2eahN9iKwEYM4edG5dZhRicoSbQ7ceOVDP6gYk6+QWNrfkyHR oSTUYvzk73R+DDVoRHNTShYy6kk/X0++EB7KHScAzlAKRrfJ/7zootY1ioVAY6j2+XCw hZqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJvrlDCQj4DAMJxCN0o+Pc2BmB/0gWYUgabNAEqnCxM7/dQflzg 4cyGxsVwOu4Qf3ogVA7N14ks8w/hQFuuX4KbU+4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBosIWH0QiE1gWSIiVcrE0rZcwU8oYyiIMzUwcc63j5IS10q+Uj3mBTNUmFBb3mqBLEk4NHcEgoJyU36uBut6uRU= X-Received: by 10.37.177.10 with SMTP id g10mr1690743ybj.434.1515174786962; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 09:53:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 09:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 09:53:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <22261a82-ced7-0351-d53c-fb8de7efda9e@gmail.com> References: <22261a82-ced7-0351-d53c-fb8de7efda9e@gmail.com> From: Curtis Franks Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 12:53:06 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_bar: ---- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Motion proposal - Unofficialness Disclaimer X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3271867918439792080==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============3271867918439792080== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f348af31dbf05620b1e08" --f403045f348af31dbf05620b1e08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with your assessments and believe that it is good for us to discuss this stuff. However, I would like to add that these issues would be resolved by the body created by my other motion (called Motion 6 in the other email chain); if that motion or one which fulfills its function and objectives were to not pass, then this discussion would be extremely important for the consideration of this motion here; on the other hand, if that or a similar motion were to pass, then this discussion entirely pointless because we should, in that case, just discuss whether this proposal is a good idea in the abstract (if implemented according to our ideals or practical expectations, which probably can go mostly unstated and remain implicit) and any discussion about the exact implementation of the policy would/should then be reserved for meetings of the body established by Motion 6 or other similar motions (and not even in the discussion about whether to pass those motions). Just something to consider. On Jan 5, 2018 12:40, "Ilmen" wrote: > =E2=94=8C=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=90 > =E2=94=82 Curtis wrote: =E2=94=82 > =E2=94=9C=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=98 > =E2=94=82 > =E2=94=82 I move that: All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org = must > =E2=94=82 contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is own= ed and > =E2=94=82 managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are n= ot > =E2=94=82 necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and m= ay not > =E2=94=82 reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specificatio= ns of the > =E2=94=82 same. > =E2=94=82 > =E2=94=82 (This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires, = related > =E2=94=82 elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.) > =E2=94=82 > =E2=94=94=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=98 > > It might be good for the disclaimer notice to include a link to the place > where official materials are stored. But that's probably premature as the= re > currently is no central place for finding such materials. > > =E2=94=8C=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=90 > =E2=94=82 > =E2=94=82 It is a little premature, but I raise the following concerns: > =E2=94=82 =E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be so disclaime= d? What > =E2=94=82 constitutes "official" content for these purposes? How do we re= view > =E2=94=82 content and, later, disclaimers - particularly in a fashion whi= ch is > =E2=94=82 quick enough to handle edits made by users. > =E2=94=82 > =E2=94=94=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=98 > > Just a small notice at the top of every page would suffice I think. Even > if the page contains stuff in complete agreement with the official data, > the notice does not assert that the content of the page is in disagreemen= t > with such official data, but merely that it might be so because the conte= nt > of the website is volunteer work. > Pages that do present data complying with what is official could include = a > reference link to the corresponding official material at a hypothetical > place managed by LLG. That would be sufficient in my opinion. > > =E2=80=94Ilmen. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > --f403045f348af31dbf05620b1e08 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree with your assessments and believe that it is good= for us to discuss this stuff. However, I would like to add that these issu= es would be resolved by the body created by my other motion (called Motion = 6 in the other email chain); if that motion or one which fulfills its funct= ion and objectives were to not pass, then this discussion would be extremel= y important for the consideration of this motion here; on the other hand, i= f that or a similar motion were to pass, then this discussion entirely poin= tless because we should, in that case, just discuss whether this proposal i= s a good idea in the abstract (if implemented according to our ideals or pr= actical expectations, which probably can go mostly unstated and remain impl= icit) and any discussion about the exact implementation of the policy would= /should then be reserved for meetings of the body established by Motion 6 o= r other similar motions (and not even in the discussion about whether to pa= ss those motions). Just something to consider.

On Jan 5, 2018 12:40, "Ilmen" = <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
=E2=94= =8C=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=90 =E2=94=82 Curtis wrote: =E2=94=82
=E2=94=9C=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =98
=E2=94=82
=E2=94=82 I move that: All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must =E2=94=82 contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned= and
=E2=94=82 managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not=
=E2=94=82 necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may= not
=E2=94=82 reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications= of the
=E2=94=82 same.
=E2=94=82
=E2=94=82 (This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires= , related
=E2=94=82 elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.)
=E2=94=82
=E2=94=94=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =98

It might be good for the disclaimer notice to include a link to the place where official materials are stored. But that's probably premature as t= here
currently is no central place for finding such materials.

=E2=94=8C=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =90
=E2=94=82
=E2=94=82 It is a little premature, but I raise the following concerns:
=E2=94=82 =E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be so disclaimed?= What
=E2=94=82 constitutes "official" content for these purposes? How = do we review
=E2=94=82 content and, later, disclaimers - particularly in a fashion which= is
=E2=94=82 quick enough to handle edits made by users.
=E2=94=82
=E2=94=94=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =98

Just a small notice at the top of every page would suffice I think. Even if the page contains stuff in complete agreement with the official data, the notice does not assert that the content of the page is in disagreement<= br> with such official data, but merely that it might be so because the content=
of the website is volunteer work.
Pages that do present data complying with what is official could include a<= br> reference link to the corresponding official material at a hypothetical
place managed by LLG. That would be sufficient in my opinion.

=E2=80=94Ilmen.



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members
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