Received: from localhost ([::1]:37674 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXxP2-0000gD-CD; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 14:57:24 -0800 Received: from mail-yw0-f179.google.com ([209.85.161.179]:43263) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXxOU-0000f1-L1 for llg-members@lojban.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 14:56:53 -0800 Received: by mail-yw0-f179.google.com with SMTP id n25so3070345ywh.10 for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 14:56:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=C5QPgwkAsVAdB6IJ2rjhuWen3STdR1HR5iBnY8iRgJ8=; b=XhPlJf/tkOUou6z1p5UnjjavAoopmHvTY8x/51AfsMvlPjZ9Le8BC1rKzdonab6Pa9 Bo434yYoQCROucphpXy3YL/CP3YOSsv9eZCQf3waPDkjQ19UcWwMWeZbntXJCQHquC5m cEepBs4+SeOUzXMj9GMTSBJVUwDNtXUZMAB7Fr3B5Uy1qJmFRbw+WXS0UwZUpBhfB62/ Owm5oWoymp12hKX+ioJvLuxWRzfavNDE/Q596RUdCTt0zs5acHHVaN8bV7cwQUmscVTT VNSGyNh+b2NV8oIHzABHeX70vPt1PRVREdPbtHZ9roSFsfNxgU+KXUpbO45QM+Fn21l4 +bgg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=C5QPgwkAsVAdB6IJ2rjhuWen3STdR1HR5iBnY8iRgJ8=; b=eSvj2ZovMGJFO6v4NfFSKXc/7c8ZF1DiuwA0B4EPjyFDYOueFafyywtbZZBry/z9V2 5EXEEVSAxvMAxHvqIf2rR/YPVs2ZDE+WPL+SoUegy0OKvS0S1F5b++Uq0C/+uMXbdiSy ycshLou5niybfE6dBtIKegU3pnSdEDLF2/lNJJCQJ8CtdwarEDVdrcfRQe/dzeYxgkOv t0qvuPVlHVSgg9CFvI7G72ppgdv/uompUpeb8nFXguN/jnkp6LKy1R/4taD6xk38BLBO iCLVMyoW/ykZgKE/N4bpTOetU1zwOo0eMqzt6bZkCTlU8zoo18qBEElN11vNJIpHyiP1 lifg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJRwBAJwWXlge6k1ZiEN4U9Y4G/DDrKGwh3y/ihCTixqLYkLLge AcTGd5gPi5gpwhluImf2IvjqvN8oSP3XSEyPgvE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouPzYetjRxPAaeP4C8ghzYip4SoIj6Wrmg4jObW9UiIOeHLWAmYEubm0kmq0/xwSSX/a/9De5A6imr1f+mT7aw= X-Received: by 10.129.162.2 with SMTP id z2mr6933254ywg.275.1515279403689; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 14:56:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.199.2 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Jan 2018 14:56:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Curtis Franks Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 17:56:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Proposal : Investigation of Unofficialness X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5129353180613812811==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============5129353180613812811== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c115da297aa860562237a97" --94eb2c115da297aa860562237a97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remade my motion so that it takes some of the aforementioned concerns into consideration. I added wording which: * Makes it so that it cannot enforce Motion 4 or Motion 5 when that motion did not pass. (Previously, poor wording on my part made it so that that would have been the case, I think). * Allows the Body so described to have discretionary powers; it is not obligated to exercise or follow through on Motion 4 or Motion 5 blindly. * Added more brakes on this whole thing/opportunities for our review after the passage of this motion. That way, any objections which arise may be considered later; this is not the final vote on this Body. In particular, the whole motion expires if Section 3 is not satisfied by a certain deadline. * Obligates the Body to be more restrained and cautious. It will, I hope, not discourage participation in the Lojban community now (hopefully allaying some of the fears which have been expressed in this conversation). In particular, check out Section 0 Clause 0 (particularly: Subclause C), Section 1 Clause 7, and Section 1 Clause 9 (particularly: Procedure 0 (veto)). However, smaller changes were also included so as to increase these tendencies. * Increased clarity a little, I hope. It is also more organized and readable, obviously. On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Curtis Franks wrote: > I rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I hereb= y > proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next: > " > > ****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ****** > A motion and charter for a body: > > ___ > > > *** Section 0 - Establishment and Purpose: > > Clause 0: > =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2= =80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, > constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the au= thority of the LLG > -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B (according to its discretion) oversee,=E2= =80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and > (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and ap= plication > of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whichever of > the following items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (1) an= y > of aforementioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) any > similar policy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: According to its discretion, this same body add= itionally > shall search for both (1) potential violations of the same policies (as i= n > Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Section 0 Clause 0 > Subclause C), and (2) any content whatsoever which should be so disclaime= d > (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not necessari= ly > pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to the > aforementioned policies of the LLG) and which has been identified to be > appropriate for such disclaimer. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless of any other provision of the LLG or= this > motion (excluding Section 1 Clause 7), the primary focus of this body sha= ll > be on: (1) official-seeming accounts, pages, or other entities which are > not clearly personal and which are not endorsed by or under the direct > control of the LLG; (2) teaching materials concerning topics related to t= he > LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content which may be confused for being official= ly > endorsed by the LLG, particular that which makes proposals or analysis > concerning the structure or functionality of a language; (4) the curation > of LLG-associated or officially endorsed websites, publications, and > content within its purview. Only with rare and carefully considered > exception will this body concern itself with: (1) particular works in or > usages of any language or version thereof, particularly if they are > creative or primarily intended to be a non-instructive or > position-nonassertive texts/content concerning the structure or > functionality of a language; (2) obviously personal accounts or users who > do not claim official endorsement by the LLG for the content which they > publish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause 7 > shall be its primary legal, moral, operational, and intentional constrain= ts > and shall have dominance over nearly all other concerns. > > Clause 1: The body described in Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be simply > known as "the Body", "this Body", or (as appropriate) "it"; (note the > orthographic casing of the first two options). This motion, upon its > passage and entry into force, shall act as the charter for this Body and > shall be active policy of the LLG. > > Clause 2: This entire motion shall be inactive, vacuous, ineffective, and= =E2=80=8B > totally=E2=80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 both do not pass p= rior to > this motion or during the same meeting of the LLG as that in which this > motion was most recently proposed; (2) there is a failure to incorporate > this Body according to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D. 20= 20 > or within one full calendrical year of the passage of this motion by the > LLG (whichever is later); or (3) a directive according to or in the > pursuance of Section 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authorities therein > described. > > ___ > > > *** Section 1 - Operation and Constraints: > > Clause 0: This Body will autonomously regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-= =E2=80=8Bdesired > design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any s= uch notice, > protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Clause 0 in the st= ead of the > LLG directly=E2=80=8B. > > Clause 1: The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdec= ision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band > work to the LLG at least one per any twelve-month-long interval or > immediately upon the request of the LLG or upon its expiration or > termination. It shall save and preserve all documentation of such, as a > work of the Body, in perpetuity and in unmodified, properly maintained an= d > connected and organized, and complete form. The body shall proffer any > documentation to an appropriate law enforcement or legal official upon > their request. > > Clause 2: The Body will notify the pertinent websites and entities and > other subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clause 0), according to its own > discretion or according to the explicit and direct command by the LLG, as > to its standards and policies once such are concretely established=E2=80= =8B. Such > notification shall be only in a manner deemed suitable by the Body and > (when appropriate) the LLG directly. > > Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain t= otal > right of oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility > for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or me= thods or > works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B = or its > purview. > > Clause 4: All of this Body's authority shall be inferior to, derived from= , > and subsumed by that of the LLG or the law and shall be bounded by any > policy or command of the LLG or the law. It shall, in good faith, endeavo= r > to totally comply with and fulfill any such policy or command of LLG or t= he > law. It shall also be subject to the following conditions: > =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body shal= l > immediately cease to exist too. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter becomes inoperable or is totall= y deleted > or abolished, then this Body shall immediately cease to exist as if > naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Clause 2 appli= es > or is satisfied, then this charter is deemed to be totally inoperable. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any time and for any purpose (or none), the = LLG or > law may cause the utter and immediate termination of this Body or may hal= t > or direct any of its works, debates, or other processes. While under > investigation by the law or officers thereof, this body shall continue an= d > operate such that it complies with the directives of the law or the > aforementioned officer and reduces all other endeavors so as to maximize > its ability to comply therewith - and all other provisions to the contrar= y, > including those by or according to this charter, shall be ignored. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 3: The LLG (within the restrictions and permission= s of the > law) retains the sole right to edit or amend, add to, remove from, or > delete or abolish this charter or any policy of the LLG which sustains th= is > Body. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 4: In all cases, the law or officers thereof shall= be > superior to the LLG. > > Clause 5: The Body shall not notify or attempt to in any way regulate or > pressure any entity or content which is not subject to or the subject of > such LLG policy - although it may search for and review such content. > > Clause 6: If and when this Body finds such content as that which is > described in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does not have the authori= ty > to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, or if and when > there is lack of implemented policy or mandate concerning some content, i= t > shall - according to its discretion - notify the LLG of the situation and > its recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body shall = take no further > action regarding or relating to such content unless explicitly authorized > to do by the LLG. > > Clause 7: > Main provision: Regardless of other provisions of the LLG, the actions o= f > this Body shall be minimalistic, restrained, friendly and non-aggressive, > and welcoming of experimentation with or in - as well as welcoming of any > usage or promotion of - any version of any language which is endorsed or > promoted by the LLG or which otherwise belongs to the purview or mandate = of > this Body or of the LLG (collectively described herein as "language(s)"). > It shall actively encourage further innovation, exploration, usage, > promotion, and creative or technical or casual exercise of such languages > in all of its external interactions. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never shall attack, defame, insult, o= r > pressure (1) any users/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or thei= r > associated communities) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any > version of any language or other related work; it shall never act in a > manner which stifles or discourages anyone from enjoying, exploring, usin= g, > or promoting any such language; it shall take especial care regarding > interactions with prospective or potentially new users, authors, and > community members, as well as people or entities with whom it has little > prior interaction. In such cases, it shall at most request that the > author(s): (1) sufficiently define new or experimental cmavo, gismu, rafs= i, > zi'evla, and cmene, as well as sufficiently define and indicate nonstanda= rd > definitions thereof (regardless of their newness or other nature) or of > lujvo; (2) sufficiently identify and explain nonstandard grammatical > structures which appear or are used within the content, or sufficiently > describe the version(s) of the language which they are employing therein. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular policy, decision, work, action, = or other > output by this body shall be explicitly and particularly reviewed against > the provisions of Section 0 and Section 1, particular Section 1 Clause 7, > and the standards thereof prior to its finalization and implementation. > Such review shall be conducted by the Body as a whole or by its leadershi= p. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt within the membership of th= e Body > concerning a potential decision or course of action, its primary preferen= ce > shall be inaction, acceptance, and community-building. > > > Clause 8: > =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first composition (as described in Se= ction 2 > Clause 2), this Body shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80= =8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears plus > six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the completion of Section 1 Clause 8 > Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disauthorized, dissolved=E2= =80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B > discontinued, and disincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifetime i= s > extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by expl= icit=E2=80=8B > official action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natural expiration = of > the Body. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80=8B (= as described in Section 1 > Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, work(s), > decisions, and other output shall return to=E2=80=8B and become the direc= t > responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body (inc= luding > thereof) shall be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such things > shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, standards= , work(s), > decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the respo= nsibility > of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherw= ise or modifies or > cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the establishment an= d constitution of another > (second) body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or > shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the Body herein > described (according to Section 0) - in which case, all aforementioned > pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other output= =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be > inherited by and devolved to this second body or organization unless > otherwise specified by the LLG. > > Clause 9: > Main provision: All questions or proposals of whether to notify an > external entity or subject (as described in Section 0 or Section 1) must = be > clearly and explicitly stated to the members of the Body in an organized > and easy to find manner during an official meeting of the Body; no extern= al > or externally-oriented action or implementation resulting from or resolvi= ng > such questions or proposals, including any notification, may be conducted > or undertaken in any portion or degree, until the elapse of four full > calendrical days plus a unit of time (which is to be determined by the Bo= dy > according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) after: (1) appropriate debat= e > is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant decision is appropriately > developed and agreed to by the members (possibly including the special > determination of the aforementioned unit of time); and (3) explicit and > particular certification of the result regarding its compliance with > Section 1 Clause 7 according to the internal regulations of the body. The > following conditions and procedures shall further apply: > =E2=80=A2 Condition 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforementioned uni= t of time > which is to be determined by the Body for the delay of an implementation = or > action based upon an externally-oriented decision shall in all cases be a= t > least ten full calendrical days. If no special and explicit decision > concerning the value of this unit is made during the accompanying > more-general decision/resolution, or is made in accordance with or by > internal regulations of and by the Body in advance, then its value shall = be > ten full calendrical days. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Appropriat= e and > actionable agreement by the members will, in all cases, be constituted by > the explicit concent of at least a strict majority of the attending membe= rs > and in compliance with further internal regulations made by the Body in > advance. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential externa= l actions > or externally-oriented decisions, the default position and result of any > proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed to by a stric= t > majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a total lack of > any notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the external enti= ty > or subject) in anything related to the question of proposal in any manner > whatsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If no clear, relevant, > non-default-valued decision for a given question or proposal is > appropriately made and agreed to, then such a default result shall be > perfectly obeyed by the Body and all members thereof. > =E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the following procedure is underwa= y and in > effect, the aforementioned delay (defined in Main Provision of Section 1 > Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall not elapse further, > instead becoming paused; upon the failure or completion of any attempt at > the utilization of this procedure, such delay shall resume its elapsing > from the state in which it was paused; completion or fulfillment of Step = 0 > or Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay until both Step 0 and > Step 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure shall follow the > following steps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually exchangeable): > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the Body can= , for any reason > whatsoever (or none), formally request that the LLG review any > non-default-valued resolution or decision of any such question or proposa= l > described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such request must = be > submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion which the > members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying time interval > described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 > Clause 9 Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or accepting su= ch > petitions, then the member can instead make explicit (to the other member= s > of the Body) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and is open to > accepting such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a timely > manner at the next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (or th= is > Step is not satisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never invoke= d. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as des= cribed in Step 0 > of this Procedure) is made by the member, they are also to explicitly and > clearly notify the Body of the same and of their intended invocation of > this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so within > the unit of time described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 an= d > in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of this Pr= ocedure) are > fulfilled (in either order), this Procedure takes effect and all relevant > actions of the Body are to halt immediately and the decision described in > the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 which is relevant to the > invocation of this Procedure shall not be acted upon or implemented or > output in any matter whatsoever until the LLG makes a decision concerning > it and all related discussions. If either Step 0 or Step 1 is not satisfi= ed > within the delay interval described in the Main Provision of Section 1 > Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this Procedure will > not be considered to be underway or in effect, and the Body can proceed a= s > it was and the aforementioned time delay shall continue elapsing (having > never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied within the > time delay interval aforementioned, then the elapse of said delay will > immediately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply and be obeyed even = if > its applicability is not recognized by the leadership of the Body in a > sufficiently timely manner. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 3: Once such decision (as referenced in St= ep 2 of this > Procedure) is made by the LLG, this Procedure is completed and this Body > shall immediately and fully act accordingly and in good faith with the > decision of the LLG (regardless of their original decision concerning the > question or proposal). If the relevant issue is never resolved by the LLG > during the meeting during which they are notified of the usage of this > procedure, then the default position on the question or proposal shall > fully apply and this Body cannot again entertain or take up such or relat= ed > question or proposal (or other implementation thereof), unless the new > proposal be to cease some relevant action and comply with Section 1 Claus= e > 7, until the LLG so decides; while this lattermost condition applies, thi= s > Procedure shall be considered to be ongoing and in effect. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of being censored, as re= ferenced in this > provision, refers to the provisions of Section 1 Clause 10; the default (= or > default state or default position) herein referenced is that which is > described in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 2. > > Clause 10: The Body shall have the power to censor its own members in a > formal manner. The Body shall, in advance, decide regulations concerning > the censorship of any of their members via unanimous and explicit decisio= n > after appropriate notice to all members. Any decision to actually impleme= nt > the censoring of any member must be made by unanimous decision of all > members, excepting the subject of the proposed censorship, and only upon > appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any case, no state of censorship sha= ll > endure for more than one-hundred forty-four full calendrical days. > Constraints on participation or decision making within the Body which are > to result from censorship shall only be those which accord with and resul= t > from the policy of the LLG (including this charter) and the explicit, pri= or > internal regulations of the Body. > > Clause 11: The Body shall immediately, during its first meeting after > incorporation according to Section 3, undertake to establish internal rul= es > and regulations which satisfy and enable the provisions of this section (= id > est: Section 1). > > ___ > > > *** Section 2 - Composition: > > Clause 0 - Membership: > =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Body shall consist of an odd number of memb= ers, > numbering at least five, who shall be members of the community or people > acceptable to the Body and the LLG and who accept their membership to the > Body. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the B= ody shall be =E2=80=8Bselected in > a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be > determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (later) selections and (i= nternal) > regulations of its membership shall be under the primary, autonomous, and > direct authority and review of the Body itself, subject to the following > conditions: > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: Any regular/normal selection of ne= w membership > shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years plus s= ix > calendrical months after both the original establishment of this Body and > the incorporation of this Body according to Section 3. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any change to such selection or re= gulation shall > become effective only upon due notice to all members and the elapse of > fourteen full calendrical days after its passage, excepting the case of a= n > emergency as determined by an at-least-two-thirds supermajority of the > attending members. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All membership applications to the Body and not= ice for > such application shall be entirely public. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility requirements for membership to = the Body > shall be entirely subject to review and change by the LLG and must be > explicitly established, with the explicit permission of the LLG, prior to > the selection of any new membership of the Body. This and other basic > internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the > Body during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. > > Clause 1 - Organization: The Body shall govern and organize itself - and > design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, etc. - > =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such does not conflict with the decision= s of the > LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. Such basic = internal > regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the Body duri= ng > its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. > > Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This Body shall be > first composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January = or > 1 June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, > twenty-four-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described in > Section 3). It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a time a= nd > manner according to the wishes of all of its members. Its first business > shall be to determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursuant t= o > each provision of this charter. > > ___ > > > *** Section 3 - Incorporation: > > Clause 0: This body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the > completion and simultaneous fulfillment of each of the following conditio= ns: > =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: The first membership of this Body having been p= roperly > selected, satisfying Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to people who have > capacity and willingness to maintain and realize active membership in the > Body. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is determined by t= he LLG in > an official act thereof. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisfaction of al= l other > conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of an explicit > declaration and granting of incorporation of and to the Body by the LLG > occurs. > > ", > > where: > =E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and Motion 5 shall be understood to = refer to > the same motions as those so labelled in this current email chain or any > modification, successor, continuance, or replacement of the same. > > On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Services < > comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote: > >> In addition to the two other proposals regarding unofficial content, >> included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out that = he >> had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are considering >> here is listed below as number six. >> >> This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it. >> >> .karis. >> >> >>> *Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences* >>> >>> *Motion 4: "*The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG or >>> some body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and monit= or >>> social media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, >>> communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any way >>> whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted logic= al >>> languages and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, or >>> unofficial - and that such a body shall request such entities to >>> prominently display a disclaimer stating that they are unofficial and n= ot >>> endorsed by the LLG.*"* >>> * * I noted the following caveat with the original discussion which >>> became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enforce such requests, ju= st >>> make them. But having an official policy about addressing them may be g= ood >>> and gives us some moral 'standing')"* >>> * * Moved by me, seconded by gleki.* >>> >>> *___* >>> >>> *Unofficialness Disclaimer* >>> >>> *Motion 5: "*All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >>> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >>> managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not >>> necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not >>> reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of th= e >>> same.*"* >>> ** Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.* >>> >>> >> >> >> **** Here it is! **** >> >> >> *Motion 6: "*There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2= =80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B >>> and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -= =E2=80=8B which >>> will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as poss= ible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official >>> implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with and >>> pursuant to the content of the aforementioned motion proposals *(id >>> est: Motion 4 or Motion 5)*, provided the passage of at least one >>> thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which s= hall search for >>> either potential violations of the same or appropriate content which sh= ould >>> be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate= , >>> and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to t= he >>> aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but doe= s >>> not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said >>> content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendatio= ns >>> pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, va= cuous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B >>> ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals *(Motion 4, Motion 5)* b= oth >>> do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be in= ferior to and >>> subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of the = LLG >>> and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content wh= ich >>> is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may se= arch >>> for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially= =E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired >>> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any= such notice, >>> protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80= =8B. The body shall >>> consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The body >>> shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and >>> will notify the pertinent websites and entities and other subjects, >>> according to its own discretion or explicit and direct command by the L= LG, >>> as to its standards and policies once such are concretely established= =E2=80=8B. >>> Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total rig= ht of >>> oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility for, the >>> body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods o= r works, as >>> well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its p= urview; the >>> body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own >>> internal rules, its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such d= oes not >>> conflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents= of this >>> motion=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B the first 1 >>> January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after whi= ch >>> point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendri= cal =E2=80=8Byears and six >>> =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bb= e dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and >>> discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B = and such >>> expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official ac= tion of the >>> LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80= =8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, >>> standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B = and become >>> the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and rem= ain active >>> and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and = other output=E2=80=8B (as >>> appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until the= LLG=E2=80=8B >>> explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the est= ablishment and constitution >>> of another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which ha= s or >>> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein >>> described (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy,= standards, >>> work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited = by and devolved to >>> it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8B= membership of the >>> body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bselected in= a manner which the LLG >>> decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be determined later=E2= =80=8B by the LLG; >>> thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membership shall = be >>> under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although any >>> regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse= of >>> fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the origin= al >>> establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membershi= p; all >>> membership applications and notice for such application shall be public= ; >>> eligibility requirements for membership to the body shall be subject to >>> review and change by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with >>> explicit permission of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new >>> membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constitute= d shall be >>> determined by the LLG during or prior to, and as part of, the selection= of >>> its first membership.*=E2=80=8B"* >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > --94eb2c115da297aa860562237a97 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I remade my motion so that it takes some of the aforemention= ed concerns into consideration. I added wording which:
* Makes it so tha= t it cannot enforce Motion 4 or Motion 5 when that motion did not pass. (Pr= eviously, poor wording on my part made it so that that would have been the = case, I think).
* Allows the Body so described to have discretionary pow= ers; it is not obligated to exercise or follow through on Motion 4 or Motio= n 5 blindly.
* Added more brakes on this whole thing/opportunities for o= ur review after the passage of this motion. That way, any objections which = arise may be considered later; this is not the final vote on this Body. In = particular, the whole motion expires if Section 3 is not satisfied by a cer= tain deadline.
* Obligates the Body to be more restrained and cautious. = It will, I hope, not discourage participation in the Lojban community now (= hopefully allaying some of the fears which have been expressed in this conv= ersation). In particular, check out Section 0 Clause 0 (particularly: Subcl= ause C), Section 1 Clause 7, and Section 1 Clause 9 (particularly: Procedur= e 0 (veto)). However, smaller changes were also included so as to increase = these tendencies.
* Increased clarity a little, I hope.


=
It is also more organized and readable, obviously.

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 5:4= 6 PM, Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrot= e:
= I rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I= hereby proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next:
=C2= =A0"

****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ******
A motion and = charter for a body:

___


*** Section 0 - = Establishment and Purpose:

Clause 0:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80= =A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestabl= ished=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under= and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B (according = to its discretion) oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as pos= sible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and application of LLG = policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whichever of the foll= owing items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (1) any of afore= mentioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) any similar po= licy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: According to its discretion, this same body addit= ionally shall search for both (1) potential violations of the same policies= (as in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Section 0 Clause = 0 Subclause C), and (2) any content whatsoever which should be so disclaime= d (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not necessari= ly pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to the aforem= entioned policies of the LLG) and which has been identified to be appropria= te for such disclaimer.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless = of any other provision of the LLG or this motion (excluding Section 1 Claus= e 7), the primary focus of this body shall be on: (1) official-seeming acco= unts, pages, or other entities which are not clearly personal and which are= not endorsed by or under the direct control of the LLG; (2) teaching mater= ials concerning topics related to the LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content whic= h may be confused for being officially endorsed by the LLG, particular that= which makes proposals or analysis concerning the structure or functionalit= y of a language; (4) the curation of LLG-associated or officially endorsed = websites, publications, and content within its purview. Only with rare and = carefully considered exception will this body concern itself with: (1) part= icular works in or usages of any language or version thereof, particularly = if they are creative or primarily intended to be a non-instructive or posit= ion-nonassertive texts/content concerning the structure or functionality of= a language; (2) obviously personal accounts or users who do not claim offi= cial endorsement by the LLG for the content which they publish. Section 1 C= lause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause 7 shall be its primary le= gal, moral, operational, and intentional constraints and shall have dominan= ce over nearly all other concerns.

Clause 1: The body describe= d in Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be simply known as "the Body"= ;, "this Body", or (as appropriate) "it"; (note the ort= hographic casing of the first two options). This motion, upon its passage a= nd entry into force, shall act as the charter for this Body and shall be ac= tive policy of the LLG.

<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">Clause 2: This entire motion shall be = inactive, vacuous, ineffective, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if: (= 1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 both do not pass prior to this motion or during th= e same meeting of the LLG as that in which this motion was most recently pr= oposed; (2) there is a failure to incorporate this Body according to Sectio= n 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D. 2020 or within one full calendric= al year of the passage of this motion by the LLG (whichever is later); or (= 3) a directive according to or in the pursuance of Section 1 Clause 4 is is= sued with the authorities therein described.

___
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">
=
*** Section 1 - Operation and Constraints:

<= div class=3D"gmail_default">Clause 0:= This Body will autonomously regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesi= red design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any= such notice, protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Clause= 0 in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B.=C2=A0

<= div class=3D"gmail_default">Clause 1:= The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG at l= east one per any twelve-month-long interval or immediately upon the request= of the LLG or upon its expiration or termination. It shall save and preser= ve all documentation of such, as a work of the Body, in perpetuity and in u= nmodified, properly maintained and connected and organized, and complete fo= rm. The body shall proffer any documentation to an appropriate law enforcem= ent or legal official upon their request.

Clause 2: The Body= will notify the pertinent websites and entities and other subjects (pursua= nt to Section 0 Clause 0), according to its own discretion or according to = the explicit and direct command by the LLG, as to its standards and policie= s once such are concretely established=E2=80=8B. Such notification shall be= only in a manner deemed suitable by the Body and (when appropriate) the LL= G directly.

Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the LLG= =E2=80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control over, but not n= ecessarily responsibility for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or de= cisions or actions or methods or works, as well as any matter belonging to = its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview.

Clause 4: All o= f this Body's authority shall be inferior to, derived from, and subsume= d by that of the LLG or the law and shall be bounded by any policy or comma= nd of the LLG or the law. It shall, in good faith, endeavor to totally comp= ly with and fulfill any such policy or command of LLG or the law. It shall = also be subject to the following conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Con= dition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body shall immediately ceas= e to exist too.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter bec= omes inoperable or is totally deleted or abolished, then this Body shall im= mediately cease to exist as if naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8)= . If Section 0 Clause 2 applies or is satisfied, then this charter is deeme= d to be totally inoperable.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any = time and for any purpose (or none), the LLG or law may cause the utter and = immediate termination of this Body or may halt or direct any of its works, = debates, or other processes. While under investigation by the law or office= rs thereof, this body shall continue and operate such that it complies with= the directives of the law or the aforementioned officer and reduces all ot= her endeavors so as to maximize its ability to comply therewith - and all o= ther provisions to the contrary, including those by or according to this ch= arter, shall be ignored.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 3: The LLG (w= ithin the restrictions and permissions of the law) retains the sole right t= o edit or amend, add to, remove from, or delete or abolish this charter or = any policy of the LLG which sustains this Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 = Condition 4: In all cases, the law or officers thereof shall be superior to= the LLG.

Clause 5: The Body shall not notify or attempt to in= any way regulate or pressure any entity or content which is not subject to= or the subject of such LLG policy - although it may search for and review = such content.

Clause 6: If and when this Body finds such cont= ent as that which is described in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does n= ot have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said conten= t, or if and when there is lack of implemented policy or mandate concerning= some content, it shall - according to its discretion - notify the LLG of t= he situation and its recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B = The Body shall take no further action regarding or relating to such content= unless explicitly authorized to do by the LLG.

Clause 7:
= =C2=A0Main provision: Regardless of other provisions of the LLG, the action= s of this Body shall be minimalistic, restrained, friendly and non-aggressi= ve, and welcoming of experimentation with or in - as well as welcoming of a= ny usage or promotion of - any version of any language which is endorsed or= promoted by the LLG or which otherwise belongs to the purview or mandate o= f this Body or of the LLG (collectively described herein as "language(= s)"). It shall actively encourage further innovation, exploration, usa= ge, promotion, and creative or technical or casual exercise of such languag= es in all of its external interactions.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclaus= e A: This body never shall attack, defame, insult, or pressure (1) any user= s/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or their associated communitie= s) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any version of any language or = other related work; it shall never act in a manner which stifles or discour= ages anyone from enjoying, exploring, using, or promoting any such language= ; it shall take especial care regarding interactions with prospective or po= tentially new users, authors, and community members, as well as people or e= ntities with whom it has little prior interaction. In such cases, it shall = at most request that the author(s): (1) sufficiently define new or experime= ntal cmavo, gismu, rafsi, zi'evla, and cmene, as well as sufficiently d= efine and indicate nonstandard definitions thereof (regardless of their new= ness or other nature) or of lujvo; (2) sufficiently identify and explain no= nstandard grammatical structures which appear or are used within the conten= t, or sufficiently describe the version(s) of the language which they are e= mploying therein.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular po= licy, decision, work, action, or other output by this body shall be explici= tly and particularly reviewed against the provisions of Section 0 and Secti= on 1, particular Section 1 Clause 7, and the standards thereof prior to its= finalization and implementation. Such review shall be conducted by the Bod= y as a whole or by its leadership.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: = When there is doubt within the membership of the Body concerning a potentia= l decision or course of action, its primary preference shall be inaction, a= cceptance, and community-building.


Clause 8:
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first composition (as described = in Section 2 Clause 2), this Body shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bf= our =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears plus six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2= =80=8Bmonths.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the comple= tion of Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disa= uthorized, dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B discontinued, and d= isincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B a= nd such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B officia= l action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natural expiration of the Bo= dy.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expir= ation=E2=80=8B (as described in Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, e= ach of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, work(s)= , decisions, and other output shall return to=E2=80=8B and become the direc= t responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body (inc= luding thereof) shall be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such th= ings shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, standa= rds, work(s), decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and = in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B expli= citly decides otherwise or modifies or cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B or (2) upon the establishment and constitution of another (second) b= ody or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have = purview which nonemptily intersects that of the Body herein described (acco= rding to Section 0) - in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8B= policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshal= l be inherited by and devolved to this second body or organization unless o= therwise specified by the LLG.

Clause 9:
=C2=A0Main provis= ion: All questions or proposals of whether to notify an external entity or = subject (as described in Section 0 or Section 1) must be clearly and explic= itly stated to the members of the Body in an organized and easy to find man= ner during an official meeting of the Body; no external or externally-orien= ted action or implementation resulting from or resolving such questions or = proposals, including any notification, may be conducted or undertaken in an= y portion or degree, until the elapse of four full calendrical days plus a = unit of time (which is to be determined by the Body according to Section 1 = Clause 9 Condition 0) after: (1) appropriate debate is held and concluded; = (2) a clear, relevant decision is appropriately developed and agreed to by = the members (possibly including the special determination of the aforementi= oned unit of time); and (3) explicit and particular certification of the re= sult regarding its compliance with Section 1 Clause 7 according to the inte= rnal regulations of the body. The following conditions and procedures shall= further apply:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 0 - Determination of D= elay: The aforementioned unit of time which is to be determined by the Body= for the delay of an implementation or action based upon an externally-orie= nted decision shall in all cases be at least ten full calendrical days. If = no special and explicit decision concerning the value of this unit is made = during the accompanying more-general decision/resolution, or is made in acc= ordance with or by internal regulations of and by the Body in advance, then= its value shall be ten full calendrical days.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 C= ondition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Appropriate and actionable= agreement by the members will, in all cases, be constituted by the explici= t concent of at least a strict majority of the attending members and in com= pliance with further internal regulations made by the Body in advance.
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential= external actions or externally-oriented decisions, the default position an= d result of any proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed= to by a strict majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a = total lack of any notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the e= xternal entity or subject) in anything related to the question of proposal = in any manner whatsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If no clea= r, relevant, non-default-valued decision for a given question or proposal i= s appropriately made and agreed to, then such a default result shall be per= fectly obeyed by the Body and all members thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the following procedure is underway and in= effect, the aforementioned delay (defined in Main Provision of Section 1 C= lause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall not elapse further, in= stead becoming paused; upon the failure or completion of any attempt at the= utilization of this procedure, such delay shall resume its elapsing from t= he state in which it was paused; completion or fulfillment of Step 0 or Ste= p 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay until both Step 0 and Step 1 a= re completed and fulfilled. This procedure shall follow the following steps= (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually exchangeable):
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the Body ca= n, for any reason whatsoever (or none), formally request that the LLG revie= w any non-default-valued resolution or decision of any such question or pro= posal described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such request m= ust be submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion which the= members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying time interval descr= ibed in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 = Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or accepting such petition= s, then the member can instead make explicit (to the other members of the B= ody) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and is open to accepting = such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a timely manner at the = next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (or this Step is not s= atisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never invoked.
=
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intent= ion (as described in Step 0 of this Procedure) is made by the member, they = are also to explicitly and clearly notify the Body of the same and of their= intended invocation of this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); th= ey are to do so within the unit of time described in the Main Provision of = Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of th= is Procedure) are fulfilled (in either order), this Procedure takes effect = and all relevant actions of the Body are to halt immediately and the decisi= on described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 which is relevant = to the invocation of this Procedure shall not be acted upon or implemented = or output in any matter whatsoever until the LLG makes a decision concernin= g it and all related discussions. If either Step 0 or Step 1 is not satisfi= ed within the delay interval described in the Main Provision of Section 1 C= lause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this Procedure will not= be considered to be underway or in effect, and the Body can proceed as it = was and the aforementioned time delay shall continue elapsing (having never= been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied within the time del= ay interval aforementioned, then the elapse of said delay will immediately = halt and be paused. This Step shall apply and be obeyed even if its applica= bility is not recognized by the leadership of the Body in a sufficiently ti= mely manner.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 3: Once= such decision (as referenced in Step 2 of this Procedure) is made by the L= LG, this Procedure is completed and this Body shall immediately and fully a= ct accordingly and in good faith with the decision of the LLG (regardless o= f their original decision concerning the question or proposal). If the rele= vant issue is never resolved by the LLG during the meeting during which the= y are notified of the usage of this procedure, then the default position on= the question or proposal shall fully apply and this Body cannot again ente= rtain or take up such or related question or proposal (or other implementat= ion thereof), unless the new proposal be to cease some relevant action and = comply with Section 1 Clause 7, until the LLG so decides; while this latter= most condition applies, this Procedure shall be considered to be ongoing an= d in effect.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions:= The state of being censored, as referenced in this provision, refers to th= e provisions of Section 1 Clause 10; the default (or default state or defau= lt position) herein referenced is that which is described in Section 1 Clau= se 9 Condition 2.

Clause 10: The Body shall have the power to = censor its own members in a formal manner. The Body shall, in advance, deci= de regulations concerning the censorship of any of their members via unanim= ous and explicit decision after appropriate notice to all members. Any deci= sion to actually implement the censoring of any member must be made by unan= imous decision of all members, excepting the subject of the proposed censor= ship, and only upon appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any case, no state= of censorship shall endure for more than one-hundred forty-four full calen= drical days. Constraints on participation or decision making within the Bod= y which are to result from censorship shall only be those which accord with= and result from the policy of the LLG (including this charter) and the exp= licit, prior internal regulations of the Body.

Clause 11: The = Body shall immediately, during its first meeting after incorporation accord= ing to Section 3, undertake to establish internal rules and regulations whi= ch satisfy and enable the provisions of this section (id est: Section 1).

___


= *** Section 2 - Composition:

=
Clause 0 - Membership:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Bod= y shall consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five, who s= hall be members of the community or people acceptable to the Body and the L= LG and who accept their membership to the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 = Subclause B: The =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the Body shall be = =E2=80=8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropri= ate, which shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (later) selections and (intern= al) regulations of its membership shall be under the primary, autonomous, a= nd direct authority and review of the Body itself, subject to the following= conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 0:= Any regular/normal selection of new membership shall not occur prior to th= e elapse of fully two calendrical years plus six calendrical months after b= oth the original establishment of this Body and the incorporation of this B= ody according to Section 3.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80= =A2 Condition 1: Any change to such selection or regulation shall become ef= fective only upon due notice to all members and the elapse of fourteen full= calendrical days after its passage, excepting the case of an emergency as = determined by an at-least-two-thirds supermajority of the attending members= .
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All membership applications to th= e Body and notice for such application shall be entirely public.
=C2=A0= =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility requirements for membership t= o the Body shall be entirely subject to review and change by the LLG and mu= st be explicitly established, with the explicit permission of the LLG, prio= r to the selection of any new membership of the Body. This and other basic = internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the Bo= dy during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2.
<= br>
Clause 1 - Organization: The Body shall govern and organize itself = - and design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, et= c. - =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such does not conflict with the decis= ions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. S= uch basic internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined= by the Body during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Claus= e 2.

Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This B= ody shall be first composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of= 1 January or 1 June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersec= ting, twenty-four-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described= in Section 3). It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a time= and manner according to the wishes of all of its members. Its first busine= ss shall be to determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursuant = to each provision of this charter.

___

<= div class=3D"gmail_default">
= *** Section 3 - Incorporation:

Clause 0: This body shall be in= corporated upon and only upon the completion and simultaneous fulfillment o= f each of the following conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 0:= The first membership of this Body having been properly selected, satisfyin= g Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to people who have capacity and willingnes= s to maintain and realize active membership in the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is determined by the LL= G in an official act thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon = review of the purported satisfaction of all other conditions of Section 3 C= lause 0 by the LLG, event of an explicit declaration and granting of incorp= oration of and to the Body by the LLG occurs.=C2=A0

<= div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0&qu= ot;,

where:
=C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and = Motion 5 shall be understood to refer to the same motions as those so label= led in this current email chain or any modification, successor, continuance= , or replacement of the same.

On Fri, Jan 5, = 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>= wrote:
In addition to the two other proposals regarding=C2=A0 unofficial = content, included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out= that he had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are consi= dering here is listed below as number six.

This motion i= s now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it.=C2=A0

.karis.=C2=A0


Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences

Motion 4: "The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG= or some body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and monit= or social media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, commu= nities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any way= whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted logical = languages and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, or unof= ficial - and that such a body shall request such entities to prominently di= splay a disclaimer stating that they are unofficial and not endorsed by the= LLG."
=C2=A0* I noted the following caveat with th= e original discussion which became a motion: "(I do not think that we = can enforce such requests, just make them. But having an official policy ab= out addressing them may be good and gives us some moral 'standing')= "
=C2=A0* Moved by me, seconded by gleki.
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">
= ___

U= nofficialness Disclaimer

Motion 5: "All= non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating, at least= , that the website is owned and managed by voluntary people, and that the m= arked contents are not necessarily harmonized with the official design of L= ojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specif= ications of the same."
* Moved by me, seconded by at lea= st guskant and gleki.
<= /div>



=C2=A0**= ** Here it is! ****


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
Motion 6: "There shall be =E2= =80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and = organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80= =8B which will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar a= s possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and application of= LLG policy consistent with and pursuant=C2=A0to the content of the aforeme= ntioned motion proposals=C2=A0(id est: Motion 4 or Motion 5= ), provided the passage of at least one thereof,=E2=80=8B o= r any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which shall search for either = potential violations of the same or appropriate content which should be so = disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not = pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to the aforement= ioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but does not have th= e authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, it shal= l notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendations pertaining to suc= h=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, vacuous, and=E2=80=8B t= otally=E2=80=8B ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals=C2=A0= (Motion 4, Motion 5)=C2=A0both do not pass.=E2=80= =8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be inferior to and subs= umed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of the LLG and = it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content which is n= ot subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may search for= and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially=E2=80=8B= -=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement = =E2=80=8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead = of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B. The body shall consist of an odd number of me= mbers, numbering at least five. The body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8B= debate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, = =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websites and ent= ities and other subjects, according to its own discretion or explicit and d= irect command by the LLG, as to its standards and policies once such are co= ncretely established=E2=80=8B. Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2= =80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control over, but not nece= ssarily responsibility for, the body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decis= ions or actions or methods or works, as well as any matter belonging to its= domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview; the body shall govern and organ= ize itself and design and enforce its own internal rules, its external stan= dards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict with the decisions o= f the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. The bod= y shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B the first 1 Januar= y or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after which point i= t shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80= =8Byears and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bsha= ll =E2=80=8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and discontinue= d in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B and such expira= tion is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official action of th= e LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80= =8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work= , decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B and become the dire= ct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and remain active a= nd valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other= output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG= =E2=80=8B until the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of another body = or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purv= iew which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein described (in which= case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decis= ions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved= to it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8B= membership of the body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80= =8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, w= hich shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG; thereafter, all other s= election and regulation of its membership shall be under the primary author= ity and review of the body itself, although any regular selection of new me= mbership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years= and six calendrical months after the original establishment of the body=E2= =80=8B and selection of its first membership; all membership applications a= nd notice for such application shall be public; eligibility=C2=A0requiremen= ts for membership to the body shall be subject to review and change by the = LLG and must be explicitly established, with explicit permission of the LLG= , prior to the selection of any new membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The na= me of the body herein constituted shall be determined by the LLG during or = prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membership.=E2=80=8B"

_____________________________________= __________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



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