Received: from localhost ([::1]:43274 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eY5Vf-0001PE-0G; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 23:36:47 -0800 Received: from mail-wm0-f66.google.com ([74.125.82.66]:34151) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eY5V6-0001NU-Cc for llg-members@lojban.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 23:36:15 -0800 Received: by mail-wm0-f66.google.com with SMTP id y82so11688894wmg.1 for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 23:36:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LEF9dB479hc7XiNavmpATZ1QGTXC4CokGepLIYlw4fo=; b=ev8SfncHXeAEkeTkjK5IkmLhXfgYDfouzoFXDoS2o2lAvQJQyODfnUfzeHeQgW+tAn kcfh+juF+UJZmrPJL2pm1b9jGvHMgq5Fczot/WIzaTkUHf+1VEw2E1/dj2qfiVhT9Kcr WbRfbAfNpVPJ3HwDroFLjisR4J23DM8D3t6DciZq8/OAvXiS7/FcHeuMmLUTWJM6Evcj y1gAEaFpXWTitMuYzOhTxfGpW2So2BUcaLpvPZafdPFxOfS4oQ/fa4BhS8TUYmHE3qvW ZLZSEWsiaOFQW4d2re+5vMGsmshCkz387Cn6lQWbR8P4oT8S0XCBNN9b2nYJJb4K6Aqq J8Fg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=LEF9dB479hc7XiNavmpATZ1QGTXC4CokGepLIYlw4fo=; b=LSqwDXA076P0dU8kPyGS5C+Qa2WFitx7RcfcDrDXWAjAZOxMti/9M1ITS+AIuWUbwk 4c0YPJxRJu8L6Dtr2uGd1rEo4ke4B3tOxHLDiH63g5gKkSwxusn//iT1N4tsVBdp1qGO 16AVr28Gh7XNycDESEhXYZy+D4PYU6MIQsURD79YM2N9z35hkcpuuZ23GP1aVgogRYmw Qq5uMxZVZoiDp7RWBYXqDOQQzg6RDYqQBoVRQouGWpi3UCcWkDyhvu/B4MhQtfpvY3yU F5RTVXchRiP6RKbVgk3LkJx/x4ChJjD/EtomIQYn0qQ0TiOe9ZB91VFujI+Uy47ECfQO RL2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLt9wyDr8WJhvq13yyd4vpYqMI6yPp1m9lYoEv711dV4Q7+8oYQ /2pJ50BmYMordLNvF83S/uYwMTAmb+BYJ2H6sg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouxMWXqyURXt5QOMyjUV5jM3rPCGzjcO3gQ1WrP7+gtjFmGakRsCQgYJQomzmZSjO8iFuEtVBnf4Lc1jWrNwoQ= X-Received: by 10.80.177.22 with SMTP id k22mr11370107edd.307.1515310565504; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 23:36:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.173.219 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Jan 2018 23:35:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 10:35:25 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Proposal : Investigation of Unofficialness X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3845370346117001490==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============3845370346117001490== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c4454fb3c2f05622abb9c" --f403045c4454fb3c2f05622abb9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK. I second this amended motion. 2018-01-07 10:04 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > Oh, I see. Fair enough. We can add that explanation/definition into it/ou= r > considerations of it now, since it has not yet been seconded. > > Slight addendum to the motion: > A second and third bullet point entry under "where" (which defines terms > and conditions applying in a meta way to the motion proper) shall explain > the meanings of the terms about which gleki asked according to, roughly, > what I just said in response (we can hammer out the details if necessary, > but I think that we are good). > > On Jan 7, 2018 01:58, "Gleki Arxokuna" wrote= : > >> >> >> 2018-01-07 9:52 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : >> >>> "Syntax-oriented content" is composed of things like proposals for how >>> Lojban should work, analysis of how it does work, perhaps some discussi= ons >>> or proposals concerning parsers, maybe reference guides, and stuff like >>> that. It is not poems or stories or translations - you know: like, actu= al >>> normal reading/content. It is more 'about' than 'in' the language. >>> >>> The class of all zi'evla includes that of all fu'ivla (at least in one = - >>> the intended - sense). It is basically the set of all brivla which are = not >>> gismu or lujvo. (I think. I am really tired, so I may have gotten that >>> wrong. But you suggested the standard alternative, so you already know = what >>> I mean. :P ) >>> >> >> >> The word {zi'evla} is not officially documented so such explanations mus= t >> be included in the documents to be voted upon. >> But maybe it's not the right time to include verbose explanations into >> the motion since it can theoretically be disapproved. >> >> >> >>> >>> On Jan 7, 2018 01:37, "Gleki Arxokuna" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> What is "syntax-oriented content"? >>>> What is "zi'evla"? Maybe, fu'ivla? >>>> >>>> 2018-01-07 1:46 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : >>>> >>>>> I rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I >>>>> hereby proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next: >>>>> " >>>>> >>>>> ****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ****** >>>>> A motion and charter for a body: >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *** Section 0 - Establishment and Purpose: >>>>> >>>>> Clause 0: >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, = =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, >>>>> constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by th= e authority of the LLG >>>>> -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B (according to its discretion) oversee,= =E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and >>>>> (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation an= d application >>>>> of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whicheve= r of >>>>> the following items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (1= ) any >>>>> of aforementioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) = any >>>>> similar policy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: According to its discretion, this same body >>>>> additionally shall search for both (1) potential violations of the sa= me >>>>> policies (as in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Sec= tion 0 >>>>> Clause 0 Subclause C), and (2) any content whatsoever which should be= so >>>>> disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, an= d not >>>>> necessarily pertaining to only websites or entities or content subjec= t to >>>>> the aforementioned policies of the LLG) and which has been identified= to be >>>>> appropriate for such disclaimer. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless of any other provision of the LL= G or this >>>>> motion (excluding Section 1 Clause 7), the primary focus of this body= shall >>>>> be on: (1) official-seeming accounts, pages, or other entities which = are >>>>> not clearly personal and which are not endorsed by or under the direc= t >>>>> control of the LLG; (2) teaching materials concerning topics related = to the >>>>> LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content which may be confused for being offi= cially >>>>> endorsed by the LLG, particular that which makes proposals or analysi= s >>>>> concerning the structure or functionality of a language; (4) the cura= tion >>>>> of LLG-associated or officially endorsed websites, publications, and >>>>> content within its purview. Only with rare and carefully considered >>>>> exception will this body concern itself with: (1) particular works in= or >>>>> usages of any language or version thereof, particularly if they are >>>>> creative or primarily intended to be a non-instructive or >>>>> position-nonassertive texts/content concerning the structure or >>>>> functionality of a language; (2) obviously personal accounts or users= who >>>>> do not claim official endorsement by the LLG for the content which th= ey >>>>> publish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause= 7 >>>>> shall be its primary legal, moral, operational, and intentional const= raints >>>>> and shall have dominance over nearly all other concerns. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 1: The body described in Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be >>>>> simply known as "the Body", "this Body", or (as appropriate) "it"; (n= ote >>>>> the orthographic casing of the first two options). This motion, upon = its >>>>> passage and entry into force, shall act as the charter for this Body = and >>>>> shall be active policy of the LLG. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 2: This entire motion shall be inactive, vacuous, ineffective, >>>>> and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 b= oth do not pass prior >>>>> to this motion or during the same meeting of the LLG as that in which= this >>>>> motion was most recently proposed; (2) there is a failure to incorpor= ate >>>>> this Body according to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D= . 2020 >>>>> or within one full calendrical year of the passage of this motion by = the >>>>> LLG (whichever is later); or (3) a directive according to or in the >>>>> pursuance of Section 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authorities therei= n >>>>> described. >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *** Section 1 - Operation and Constraints: >>>>> >>>>> Clause 0: This Body will autonomously regulate the >>>>> officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2= =80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof >>>>> any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80= =8B Clause 0 in >>>>> the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 1: The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80= =8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, >>>>> =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG at least one per any twelve-month-long i= nterval or >>>>> immediately upon the request of the LLG or upon its expiration or >>>>> termination. It shall save and preserve all documentation of such, as= a >>>>> work of the Body, in perpetuity and in unmodified, properly maintaine= d and >>>>> connected and organized, and complete form. The body shall proffer an= y >>>>> documentation to an appropriate law enforcement or legal official upo= n >>>>> their request. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 2: The Body will notify the pertinent websites and entities an= d >>>>> other subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clause 0), according to its own >>>>> discretion or according to the explicit and direct command by the LLG= , as >>>>> to its standards and policies once such are concretely established=E2= =80=8B. Such >>>>> notification shall be only in a manner deemed suitable by the Body an= d >>>>> (when appropriate) the LLG directly. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall reta= in total >>>>> right of oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibili= ty >>>>> for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions o= r methods or >>>>> works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80= =8B or its >>>>> purview. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 4: All of this Body's authority shall be inferior to, derived >>>>> from, and subsumed by that of the LLG or the law and shall be bounded= by >>>>> any policy or command of the LLG or the law. It shall, in good faith, >>>>> endeavor to totally comply with and fulfill any such policy or comman= d of >>>>> LLG or the law. It shall also be subject to the following conditions: >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body = shall >>>>> immediately cease to exist too. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter becomes inoperable or is to= tally >>>>> deleted or abolished, then this Body shall immediately cease to exist= as if >>>>> naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Clause 2 a= pplies >>>>> or is satisfied, then this charter is deemed to be totally inoperable= . >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any time and for any purpose (or none), = the LLG >>>>> or law may cause the utter and immediate termination of this Body or = may >>>>> halt or direct any of its works, debates, or other processes. While u= nder >>>>> investigation by the law or officers thereof, this body shall continu= e and >>>>> operate such that it complies with the directives of the law or the >>>>> aforementioned officer and reduces all other endeavors so as to maxim= ize >>>>> its ability to comply therewith - and all other provisions to the con= trary, >>>>> including those by or according to this charter, shall be ignored. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 3: The LLG (within the restrictions and permis= sions of >>>>> the law) retains the sole right to edit or amend, add to, remove from= , or >>>>> delete or abolish this charter or any policy of the LLG which sustain= s this >>>>> Body. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 4: In all cases, the law or officers thereof s= hall be >>>>> superior to the LLG. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 5: The Body shall not notify or attempt to in any way regulate >>>>> or pressure any entity or content which is not subject to or the subj= ect of >>>>> such LLG policy - although it may search for and review such content. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 6: If and when this Body finds such content as that which is >>>>> described in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does not have the aut= hority >>>>> to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, or if and whe= n >>>>> there is lack of implemented policy or mandate concerning some conten= t, it >>>>> shall - according to its discretion - notify the LLG of the situation= and >>>>> its recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body sh= all take no further >>>>> action regarding or relating to such content unless explicitly author= ized >>>>> to do by the LLG. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 7: >>>>> Main provision: Regardless of other provisions of the LLG, the >>>>> actions of this Body shall be minimalistic, restrained, friendly and >>>>> non-aggressive, and welcoming of experimentation with or in - as well= as >>>>> welcoming of any usage or promotion of - any version of any language = which >>>>> is endorsed or promoted by the LLG or which otherwise belongs to the >>>>> purview or mandate of this Body or of the LLG (collectively described >>>>> herein as "language(s)"). It shall actively encourage further innovat= ion, >>>>> exploration, usage, promotion, and creative or technical or casual ex= ercise >>>>> of such languages in all of its external interactions. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never shall attack, defame, insul= t, or >>>>> pressure (1) any users/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or = their >>>>> associated communities) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any >>>>> version of any language or other related work; it shall never act in = a >>>>> manner which stifles or discourages anyone from enjoying, exploring, = using, >>>>> or promoting any such language; it shall take especial care regarding >>>>> interactions with prospective or potentially new users, authors, and >>>>> community members, as well as people or entities with whom it has lit= tle >>>>> prior interaction. In such cases, it shall at most request that the >>>>> author(s): (1) sufficiently define new or experimental cmavo, gismu, = rafsi, >>>>> zi'evla, and cmene, as well as sufficiently define and indicate nonst= andard >>>>> definitions thereof (regardless of their newness or other nature) or = of >>>>> lujvo; (2) sufficiently identify and explain nonstandard grammatical >>>>> structures which appear or are used within the content, or sufficient= ly >>>>> describe the version(s) of the language which they are employing ther= ein. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular policy, decision, work, acti= on, or >>>>> other output by this body shall be explicitly and particularly review= ed >>>>> against the provisions of Section 0 and Section 1, particular Section= 1 >>>>> Clause 7, and the standards thereof prior to its finalization and >>>>> implementation. Such review shall be conducted by the Body as a whole= or by >>>>> its leadership. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt within the membership o= f the >>>>> Body concerning a potential decision or course of action, its primary >>>>> preference shall be inaction, acceptance, and community-building. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Clause 8: >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first composition (as described i= n Section >>>>> 2 Clause 2), this Body shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour = =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears >>>>> plus six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the completion of Section 1 Clau= se 8 >>>>> Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disauthorized, dissolved= =E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B >>>>> discontinued, and disincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifeti= me is >>>>> extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by = explicit=E2=80=8B >>>>> official action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natural expirat= ion of >>>>> the Body. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80= =8B (as described in >>>>> Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, >>>>> work(s), decisions, and other output shall return to=E2=80=8B and bec= ome the direct >>>>> responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body = (including >>>>> thereof) shall be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such thi= ngs >>>>> shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, stand= ards, work(s), >>>>> decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the r= esponsibility >>>>> of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides ot= herwise or modifies or >>>>> cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the establishmen= t and constitution of another >>>>> (second) body or organization under the authority of the LLG which ha= s or >>>>> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the Body herei= n >>>>> described (according to Section 0) - in which case, all aforementione= d >>>>> pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other outp= ut=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be >>>>> inherited by and devolved to this second body or organization unless >>>>> otherwise specified by the LLG. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 9: >>>>> Main provision: All questions or proposals of whether to notify an >>>>> external entity or subject (as described in Section 0 or Section 1) m= ust be >>>>> clearly and explicitly stated to the members of the Body in an organi= zed >>>>> and easy to find manner during an official meeting of the Body; no ex= ternal >>>>> or externally-oriented action or implementation resulting from or res= olving >>>>> such questions or proposals, including any notification, may be condu= cted >>>>> or undertaken in any portion or degree, until the elapse of four full >>>>> calendrical days plus a unit of time (which is to be determined by th= e Body >>>>> according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) after: (1) appropriate d= ebate >>>>> is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant decision is appropriatel= y >>>>> developed and agreed to by the members (possibly including the specia= l >>>>> determination of the aforementioned unit of time); and (3) explicit a= nd >>>>> particular certification of the result regarding its compliance with >>>>> Section 1 Clause 7 according to the internal regulations of the body.= The >>>>> following conditions and procedures shall further apply: >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforementioned= unit of >>>>> time which is to be determined by the Body for the delay of an >>>>> implementation or action based upon an externally-oriented decision s= hall >>>>> in all cases be at least ten full calendrical days. If no special and >>>>> explicit decision concerning the value of this unit is made during th= e >>>>> accompanying more-general decision/resolution, or is made in accordan= ce >>>>> with or by internal regulations of and by the Body in advance, then i= ts >>>>> value shall be ten full calendrical days. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Approp= riate and >>>>> actionable agreement by the members will, in all cases, be constitute= d by >>>>> the explicit concent of at least a strict majority of the attending m= embers >>>>> and in compliance with further internal regulations made by the Body = in >>>>> advance. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential ext= ernal >>>>> actions or externally-oriented decisions, the default position and re= sult >>>>> of any proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed to= by a >>>>> strict majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a tot= al >>>>> lack of any notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the >>>>> external entity or subject) in anything related to the question of pr= oposal >>>>> in any manner whatsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If n= o >>>>> clear, relevant, non-default-valued decision for a given question or >>>>> proposal is appropriately made and agreed to, then such a default res= ult >>>>> shall be perfectly obeyed by the Body and all members thereof. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the following procedure is und= erway and >>>>> in effect, the aforementioned delay (defined in Main Provision of Sec= tion 1 >>>>> Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall not elapse furt= her, >>>>> instead becoming paused; upon the failure or completion of any attemp= t at >>>>> the utilization of this procedure, such delay shall resume its elapsi= ng >>>>> from the state in which it was paused; completion or fulfillment of S= tep 0 >>>>> or Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay until both Step 0 = and >>>>> Step 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure shall follow the >>>>> following steps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually exchangeable): >>>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the Body= can, for any >>>>> reason whatsoever (or none), formally request that the LLG review any >>>>> non-default-valued resolution or decision of any such question or pro= posal >>>>> described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such request m= ust be >>>>> submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion which the >>>>> members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying time interval >>>>> described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section = 1 >>>>> Clause 9 Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or acceptin= g such >>>>> petitions, then the member can instead make explicit (to the other me= mbers >>>>> of the Body) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and is open= to >>>>> accepting such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a timel= y >>>>> manner at the next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (o= r this >>>>> Step is not satisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never in= voked. >>>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as= described in >>>>> Step 0 of this Procedure) is made by the member, they are also to >>>>> explicitly and clearly notify the Body of the same and of their inten= ded >>>>> invocation of this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they a= re to >>>>> do so within the unit of time described in the Main Provision of Sect= ion 1 >>>>> Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0. >>>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of thi= s Procedure) are >>>>> fulfilled (in either order), this Procedure takes effect and all rele= vant >>>>> actions of the Body are to halt immediately and the decision describe= d in >>>>> the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 which is relevant to the >>>>> invocation of this Procedure shall not be acted upon or implemented o= r >>>>> output in any matter whatsoever until the LLG makes a decision concer= ning >>>>> it and all related discussions. If either Step 0 or Step 1 is not sat= isfied >>>>> within the delay interval described in the Main Provision of Section = 1 >>>>> Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this Procedure w= ill >>>>> not be considered to be underway or in effect, and the Body can proce= ed as >>>>> it was and the aforementioned time delay shall continue elapsing (hav= ing >>>>> never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied within t= he >>>>> time delay interval aforementioned, then the elapse of said delay wil= l >>>>> immediately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply and be obeyed e= ven if >>>>> its applicability is not recognized by the leadership of the Body in = a >>>>> sufficiently timely manner. >>>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 3: Once such decision (as referenced i= n Step 2 of this >>>>> Procedure) is made by the LLG, this Procedure is completed and this B= ody >>>>> shall immediately and fully act accordingly and in good faith with th= e >>>>> decision of the LLG (regardless of their original decision concerning= the >>>>> question or proposal). If the relevant issue is never resolved by the= LLG >>>>> during the meeting during which they are notified of the usage of thi= s >>>>> procedure, then the default position on the question or proposal shal= l >>>>> fully apply and this Body cannot again entertain or take up such or r= elated >>>>> question or proposal (or other implementation thereof), unless the ne= w >>>>> proposal be to cease some relevant action and comply with Section 1 C= lause >>>>> 7, until the LLG so decides; while this lattermost condition applies,= this >>>>> Procedure shall be considered to be ongoing and in effect. >>>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of being censored, a= s referenced in >>>>> this provision, refers to the provisions of Section 1 Clause 10; the >>>>> default (or default state or default position) herein referenced is t= hat >>>>> which is described in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 2. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 10: The Body shall have the power to censor its own members in >>>>> a formal manner. The Body shall, in advance, decide regulations conce= rning >>>>> the censorship of any of their members via unanimous and explicit dec= ision >>>>> after appropriate notice to all members. Any decision to actually imp= lement >>>>> the censoring of any member must be made by unanimous decision of all >>>>> members, excepting the subject of the proposed censorship, and only u= pon >>>>> appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any case, no state of censorship= shall >>>>> endure for more than one-hundred forty-four full calendrical days. >>>>> Constraints on participation or decision making within the Body which= are >>>>> to result from censorship shall only be those which accord with and r= esult >>>>> from the policy of the LLG (including this charter) and the explicit,= prior >>>>> internal regulations of the Body. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 11: The Body shall immediately, during its first meeting after >>>>> incorporation according to Section 3, undertake to establish internal= rules >>>>> and regulations which satisfy and enable the provisions of this secti= on (id >>>>> est: Section 1). >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *** Section 2 - Composition: >>>>> >>>>> Clause 0 - Membership: >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Body shall consist of an odd number of = members, >>>>> numbering at least five, who shall be members of the community or peo= ple >>>>> acceptable to the Body and the LLG and who accept their membership to= the >>>>> Body. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of t= he Body shall be >>>>> =E2=80=8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be ap= propriate, which shall >>>>> be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (later) selections an= d >>>>> (internal) regulations of its membership shall be under the primary, >>>>> autonomous, and direct authority and review of the Body itself, subje= ct to >>>>> the following conditions: >>>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: Any regular/normal selection o= f new membership >>>>> shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years pl= us six >>>>> calendrical months after both the original establishment of this Body= and >>>>> the incorporation of this Body according to Section 3. >>>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any change to such selection o= r regulation >>>>> shall become effective only upon due notice to all members and the el= apse >>>>> of fourteen full calendrical days after its passage, excepting the ca= se of >>>>> an emergency as determined by an at-least-two-thirds supermajority of= the >>>>> attending members. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All membership applications to the Body and= notice >>>>> for such application shall be entirely public. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility requirements for membership= to the >>>>> Body shall be entirely subject to review and change by the LLG and mu= st be >>>>> explicitly established, with the explicit permission of the LLG, prio= r to >>>>> the selection of any new membership of the Body. This and other basic >>>>> internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by = the >>>>> Body during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause = 2. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 1 - Organization: The Body shall govern and organize itself - >>>>> and design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards= , etc. >>>>> - =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such does not conflict with the de= cisions of the >>>>> LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. Such ba= sic internal >>>>> regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the Body = during >>>>> its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. >>>>> >>>>> Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This Body shall be >>>>> first composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 Janu= ary or >>>>> 1 June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, >>>>> twenty-four-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described= in >>>>> Section 3). It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a ti= me and >>>>> manner according to the wishes of all of its members. Its first busin= ess >>>>> shall be to determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursua= nt to >>>>> each provision of this charter. >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *** Section 3 - Incorporation: >>>>> >>>>> Clause 0: This body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the >>>>> completion and simultaneous fulfillment of each of the following cond= itions: >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: The first membership of this Body having be= en >>>>> properly selected, satisfying Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to peopl= e who >>>>> have capacity and willingness to maintain and realize active membersh= ip in >>>>> the Body. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is determined = by the >>>>> LLG in an official act thereof. >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisfaction o= f all >>>>> other conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of an explic= it >>>>> declaration and granting of incorporation of and to the Body by the L= LG >>>>> occurs. >>>>> >>>>> ", >>>>> >>>>> where: >>>>> =E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and Motion 5 shall be understood= to refer >>>>> to the same motions as those so labelled in this current email chain = or any >>>>> modification, successor, continuance, or replacement of the same. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Services < >>>>> comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In addition to the two other proposals regarding unofficial content= , >>>>>> included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out t= hat he >>>>>> had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are conside= ring >>>>>> here is listed below as number six. >>>>>> >>>>>> This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it. >>>>>> >>>>>> .karis. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> *Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Motion 4: "*The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG or >>>>>>> some body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and m= onitor >>>>>>> social media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, >>>>>>> communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any = way >>>>>>> whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted l= ogical >>>>>>> languages and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting,= or >>>>>>> unofficial - and that such a body shall request such entities to >>>>>>> prominently display a disclaimer stating that they are unofficial a= nd not >>>>>>> endorsed by the LLG.*"* >>>>>>> * * I noted the following caveat with the original discussion which >>>>>>> became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enforce such requests= , just >>>>>>> make them. But having an official policy about addressing them may = be good >>>>>>> and gives us some moral 'standing')"* >>>>>>> * * Moved by me, seconded by gleki.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *___* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Unofficialness Disclaimer* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Motion 5: "*All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >>>>>>> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned a= nd >>>>>>> managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not >>>>>>> necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may n= ot >>>>>>> reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications o= f the >>>>>>> same.*"* >>>>>>> ** Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> **** Here it is! **** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Motion 6: "*There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablishe= d=E2=80=8B, >>>>>>> constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by = the authority of the LLG >>>>>>> -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B,= and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the >>>>>>> official implementation and application of LLG policy consistent wi= th and >>>>>>> pursuant to the content of the aforementioned motion proposals *(id >>>>>>> est: Motion 4 or Motion 5)*, provided the passage of at least one >>>>>>> thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and whi= ch shall search for >>>>>>> either potential violations of the same or appropriate content whic= h should >>>>>>> be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other man= date, >>>>>>> and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject = to the >>>>>>> aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but= does >>>>>>> not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to sa= id >>>>>>> content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommend= ations >>>>>>> pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive= , vacuous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B >>>>>>> ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals *(Motion 4, Motion >>>>>>> 5)* both do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authorit= y shall be >>>>>>> inferior to and subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by= such >>>>>>> policy of the LLG and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate an= y entity >>>>>>> or content which is not subject to or the subject of such LLG polic= y, >>>>>>> although it may search for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It wil= l regulate the >>>>>>> officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage= =E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof >>>>>>> any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of t= he LLG >>>>>>> directly=E2=80=8B. The body shall consist of an odd number of membe= rs, numbering at >>>>>>> least five. The body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2= =80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, >>>>>>> =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websites= and entities >>>>>>> and other subjects, according to its own discretion or explicit and= direct >>>>>>> command by the LLG, as to its standards and policies once such are >>>>>>> concretely established=E2=80=8B. Whilst the body is constituted, th= e LLG=E2=80=8B shall >>>>>>> retain total right of oversight and control over, but not necessari= ly >>>>>>> responsibility for, the body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decis= ions or actions >>>>>>> or methods or works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain = of >>>>>>> purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview; the body shall govern and organize= itself and >>>>>>> design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, = etc. >>>>>>> =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict with the decisions of th= e LLG=E2=80=8B, >>>>>>> including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. The body shall be c= omposed on the >>>>>>> earliest of=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B the first 1 January or first 1 June a= fter its first >>>>>>> membership is chosen, after which point it shall exist for =E2=80= =8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour >>>>>>> =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical = =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe >>>>>>> dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and discontinued in it= s entirety, unless its >>>>>>> lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in par= t or whole by >>>>>>> explicit=E2=80=8B official action of the LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs exp= iration=E2=80=8B (described >>>>>>> previously)=E2=80=8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other >>>>>>> output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B and become the direct responsibili= ty of=E2=80=8B the LLG >>>>>>> and shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8B= policy, standards, work, >>>>>>> decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the= responsibility >>>>>>> of the LLG=E2=80=8B until the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides other= wise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the >>>>>>> establishment and constitution of another body or organization unde= r the >>>>>>> authority of the LLG which has or shall have purview which nonempti= ly >>>>>>> intersects that of the body herein described (in which case, all >>>>>>> aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decision= s, and other >>>>>>> output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to it u= nless otherwise >>>>>>> specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of th= e body =E2=80=8Bherein >>>>>>> constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bselected in a manner which t= he LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be >>>>>>> appropriate, which shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG; t= hereafter, all >>>>>>> other selection and regulation of its membership shall be under the= primary >>>>>>> authority and review of the body itself, although any regular selec= tion of >>>>>>> new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two cal= endrical >>>>>>> years and six calendrical months after the original establishment o= f the >>>>>>> body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership; all membership= applications >>>>>>> and notice for such application shall be public; eligibility requir= ements >>>>>>> for membership to the body shall be subject to review and change by= the LLG >>>>>>> and must be explicitly established, with explicit permission of the= LLG, >>>>>>> prior to the selection of any new membership of the body.=E2=80=8B = The name of the >>>>>>> body herein constituted shall be determined by the LLG during or pr= ior to, >>>>>>> and as part of, the selection of its first membership.*=E2=80=8B"* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --f403045c4454fb3c2f05622abb9c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK. I second this amended motion.

2018-01-07 10:04 GMT+03:00 Curtis Fr= anks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
Oh, I see. Fair enough. We can add that e= xplanation/definition into it/our considerations of it now, since it has no= t yet been seconded.

Slight ad= dendum to the motion:
A second and third bullet poin= t entry under "where" (which defines terms and conditions applyin= g in a meta way to the motion proper) shall explain the meanings of the ter= ms about which gleki asked according to, roughly, what I just said in respo= nse (we can hammer out the details if necessary, but I think that we are go= od).

On Jan 7, 2018 01:58, "Gleki Ar= xokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2018-01-07 9:52 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
"Syntax-oriented content" is composed o= f things like proposals for how Lojban should work, analysis of how it does= work, perhaps some discussions or proposals concerning parsers, maybe refe= rence guides, and stuff like that. It is not poems or stories or translatio= ns - you know: like, actual normal reading/content. It is more 'about&#= 39; than 'in' the language.

The class of all zi'evla includes that of all fu'ivla (at lea= st in one - the intended - sense). It is basically the set of all brivla wh= ich are not gismu or lujvo. (I think. I am really tired, so I may have gott= en that wrong. But you suggested the standard alternative, so you already k= now what I mean. :P )


The word {zi'evla} is not officially documented so such explanati= ons must be included in the documents to be voted upon.
But maybe= it's not the right time to include verbose explanations into the motio= n since it can theoretically be disapproved.


<= /div>

On Jan 7, 2018 01:37, "= ;Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
What is "syntax-= oriented content"?
What is "zi'evla"? Maybe, fu'= ivla?

= 2018-01-07 1:46 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com= >:
I rescind my proposal of and suppo= rt for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I hereby proffer and move Motion 6 = Amended 1ce, as described next:
=C2=A0"

****** Mot= ion 6 Amended 1ce ******
A motion and charter for a body:

___


*** Section 0 - Establishment and Purpose:<= /font>

Clause 0:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There sha= ll herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, constitute= d,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of t= he LLG -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B (according to its discretion) oversee= ,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B th= e official implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with and= pursuant to the content of whichever of the following items have been pass= ed by the LLG and are in effect: (1) any of aforementioned motion proposals= (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) any similar policy of the LLG which has = been explicitly delegated to it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: According to its discretio= n, this same body additionally shall search for both (1) potential violatio= ns of the same policies (as in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord= with Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause C), and (2) any content whatsoever which= should be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other man= date, and not necessarily pertaining to only websites or entities or conten= t subject to the aforementioned policies of the LLG) and which has been ide= ntified to be appropriate for such disclaimer.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless = of any other provision of the LLG or this motion (excluding Section 1 Claus= e 7), the primary focus of this body shall be on: (1) official-seeming acco= unts, pages, or other entities which are not clearly personal and which are= not endorsed by or under the direct control of the LLG; (2) teaching mater= ials concerning topics related to the LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content whic= h may be confused for being officially endorsed by the LLG, particular that= which makes proposals or analysis concerning the structure or functionalit= y of a language; (4) the curation of LLG-associated or officially endorsed = websites, publications, and content within its purview. Only with rare and = carefully considered exception will this body concern itself with: (1) part= icular works in or usages of any language or version thereof, particularly = if they are creative or primarily intended to be a non-instructive or posit= ion-nonassertive texts/content concerning the structure or functionality of= a language; (2) obviously personal accounts or users who do not claim offi= cial endorsement by the LLG for the content which they publish. Section 1 C= lause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause 7 shall be its primary le= gal, moral, operational, and intentional constraints and shall have dominan= ce over nearly all other concerns.

= Clause 1: The body described in Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be simply k= nown as "the Body", "this Body", or (as appropriate) &q= uot;it"; (note the orthographic casing of the first two options). This= motion, upon its passage and entry into force, shall act as the charter fo= r this Body and shall be active policy of the LLG.

Clause 2: This entire motion shall be inactive, vacuous, in= effective, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motio= n 5 both do not pass prior to this motion or during the same meeting of the= LLG as that in which this motion was most recently proposed; (2) there is = a failure to incorporate this Body according to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) U= TC of 1 January A.D. 2020 or within one full calendrical year of the passag= e of this motion by the LLG (whichever is later); or (3) a directive accord= ing to or in the pursuance of Section 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authori= ties therein described.

___<= /div>


*** Section 1 - Operation and Constraints:

Clause 0: This Body will autonomously regulate = the officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2= =80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaime= r pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Clause 0 in the stead of the LLG directly= =E2=80=8B.=C2=A0
Clause 1: The Body= shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG at least one = per any twelve-month-long interval or immediately upon the request of the L= LG or upon its expiration or termination. It shall save and preserve all do= cumentation of such, as a work of the Body, in perpetuity and in unmodified= , properly maintained and connected and organized, and complete form. The b= ody shall proffer any documentation to an appropriate law enforcement or le= gal official upon their request.

Cl= ause 2: The Body will notify the pertinent websites and entities and other = subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clause 0), according to its own discretion = or according to the explicit and direct command by the LLG, as to its stand= ards and policies once such are concretely established=E2=80=8B. Such notif= ication shall be only in a manner deemed suitable by the Body and (when app= ropriate) the LLG directly.

Clause = 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total righ= t of oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility for, th= e Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods or = works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or= its purview.

Clause 4: All of this= Body's authority shall be inferior to, derived from, and subsumed by t= hat of the LLG or the law and shall be bounded by any policy or command of = the LLG or the law. It shall, in good faith, endeavor to totally comply wit= h and fulfill any such policy or command of LLG or the law. It shall also b= e subject to the following conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to= exist, then this Body shall immediately cease to exist too.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1= : If this charter becomes inoperable or is totally deleted or abolished, th= en this Body shall immediately cease to exist as if naturally expired (as i= n Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Clause 2 applies or is satisfied, then = this charter is deemed to be totally inoperable.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any tim= e and for any purpose (or none), the LLG or law may cause the utter and imm= ediate termination of this Body or may halt or direct any of its works, deb= ates, or other processes. While under investigation by the law or officers = thereof, this body shall continue and operate such that it complies with th= e directives of the law or the aforementioned officer and reduces all other= endeavors so as to maximize its ability to comply therewith - and all othe= r provisions to the contrary, including those by or according to this chart= er, shall be ignored.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 4: In all cases, the law or officers ther= eof shall be superior to the LLG.

C= lause 5: The Body shall not notify or attempt to in any way regulate or pre= ssure any entity or content which is not subject to or the subject of such = LLG policy - although it may search for and review such content.

Clause 6: If and when this Body finds such co= ntent as that which is described in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does= not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said cont= ent, or if and when there is lack of implemented policy or mandate concerni= ng some content, it shall - according to its discretion - notify the LLG of= the situation and its recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80= =8B The Body shall take no further action regarding or relating to such con= tent unless explicitly authorized to do by the LLG.

Clause 7:
=C2=A0Main provision: Regardless of other provisions of the LLG, the= actions of this Body shall be minimalistic, restrained, friendly and non-a= ggressive, and welcoming of experimentation with or in - as well as welcomi= ng of any usage or promotion of - any version of any language which is endo= rsed or promoted by the LLG or which otherwise belongs to the purview or ma= ndate of this Body or of the LLG (collectively described herein as "la= nguage(s)"). It shall actively encourage further innovation, explorati= on, usage, promotion, and creative or technical or casual exercise of such = languages in all of its external interactions.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body n= ever shall attack, defame, insult, or pressure (1) any users/authors of or = in the relevant language(s) (or their associated communities) nor (2) the p= articular personal usage of any version of any language or other related wo= rk; it shall never act in a manner which stifles or discourages anyone from= enjoying, exploring, using, or promoting any such language; it shall take = especial care regarding interactions with prospective or potentially new us= ers, authors, and community members, as well as people or entities with who= m it has little prior interaction. In such cases, it shall at most request = that the author(s): (1) sufficiently define new or experimental cmavo, gism= u, rafsi, zi'evla, and cmene, as well as sufficiently define and indica= te nonstandard definitions thereof (regardless of their newness or other na= ture) or of lujvo; (2) sufficiently identify and explain nonstandard gramma= tical structures which appear or are used within the content, or sufficient= ly describe the version(s) of the language which they are employing therein= .
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular policy, decision, work, action, or other= output by this body shall be explicitly and particularly reviewed against = the provisions of Section 0 and Section 1, particular Section 1 Clause 7, a= nd the standards thereof prior to its finalization and implementation. Such= review shall be conducted by the Body as a whole or by its leadership.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 = Subclause C: When there is doubt within the membership of the Body concerni= ng a potential decision or course of action, its primary preference shall b= e inaction, acceptance, and community-building.


Cl= ause 8:
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first composition (as described in Sect= ion 2 Clause 2), this Body shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2= =80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears plus six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmon= ths.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the completion of Section 1 Clause 8 Subc= lause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disauthorized, dissolved=E2=80=8B, = disconstituted,=E2=80=8B discontinued, and disincorporated in its entirety = - unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed i= n part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official action of the LLG. This shall= constitute the natural expiration of the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2= =80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80=8B (as described in Section 1 Clause 8 Sub= clause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicie= s, standards, work(s), decisions, and other output shall return to=E2=80=8B= and become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all documenta= tion by the Body (including thereof) shall be permanently given to the sole= care of LLG; such things shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80= =8Bas policies, standards, work(s), decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B (a= s appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) = the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwise or modifies or cancels them;= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the establishment and constitution = of another (second) body or organization under the authority of the LLG whi= ch has or shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the Body h= erein described (according to Section 0) - in which case, all aforementione= d pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other output= =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to this second body o= r organization unless otherwise specified by the LLG.

Clause 9:
=C2=A0Main provision: All questions or proposals of whether to not= ify an external entity or subject (as described in Section 0 or Section 1) = must be clearly and explicitly stated to the members of the Body in an orga= nized and easy to find manner during an official meeting of the Body; no ex= ternal or externally-oriented action or implementation resulting from or re= solving such questions or proposals, including any notification, may be con= ducted or undertaken in any portion or degree, until the elapse of four ful= l calendrical days plus a unit of time (which is to be determined by the Bo= dy according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) after: (1) appropriate deba= te is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant decision is appropriately d= eveloped and agreed to by the members (possibly including the special deter= mination of the aforementioned unit of time); and (3) explicit and particul= ar certification of the result regarding its compliance with Section 1 Clau= se 7 according to the internal regulations of the body. The following condi= tions and procedures shall further apply:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 0 - Determination of= Delay: The aforementioned unit of time which is to be determined by the Bo= dy for the delay of an implementation or action based upon an externally-or= iented decision shall in all cases be at least ten full calendrical days. I= f no special and explicit decision concerning the value of this unit is mad= e during the accompanying more-general decision/resolution, or is made in a= ccordance with or by internal regulations of and by the Body in advance, th= en its value shall be ten full calendrical days.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal R= equirements for Decisions: Appropriate and actionable agreement by the memb= ers will, in all cases, be constituted by the explicit concent of at least = a strict majority of the attending members and in compliance with further i= nternal regulations made by the Body in advance.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2 - Default D= ecision: Concerning potential external actions or externally-oriented decis= ions, the default position and result of any proposed action or question sh= all, unless explicitly agreed to by a strict majority of the membership, be= utter inaction (including a total lack of any notification or pressure, or= indication thereof, of the external entity or subject) in anything related= to the question of proposal in any manner whatsoever and compliance with S= ection 1 Clause 7. If no clear, relevant, non-default-valued decision for a= given question or proposal is appropriately made and agreed to, then such = a default result shall be perfectly obeyed by the Body and all members ther= eof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the following procedure is underway and= in effect, the aforementioned delay (defined in Main Provision of Section = 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall not elapse further,= instead becoming paused; upon the failure or completion of any attempt at = the utilization of this procedure, such delay shall resume its elapsing fro= m the state in which it was paused; completion or fulfillment of Step 0 or = Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay until both Step 0 and Step = 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure shall follow the following st= eps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually exchangeable):
<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2= =E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the Body can, for any reason w= hatsoever (or none), formally request that the LLG review any non-default-v= alued resolution or decision of any such question or proposal described in = the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such request must be submitted to= the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion which the members of the LLG= can understand, within the delaying time interval described in the Main Pr= ovision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0. If the= LLG is not currently meeting or accepting such petitions, then the member = can instead make explicit (to the other members of the Body) their intentio= ns to do so once the LLG meets and is open to accepting such petitions; the= y must fulfill this intention in a timely manner at the next opportunity to= do so, else this Procedure fails (or this Step is not satisfied) and the B= ody may proceed as if it was never invoked.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step = 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as described in Step 0 of this Procedur= e) is made by the member, they are also to explicitly and clearly notify th= e Body of the same and of their intended invocation of this provision (Sect= ion 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so within the unit of time desc= ribed in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9= Condition 0.
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and Step 1 (eac= h of this Procedure) are fulfilled (in either order), this Procedure takes = effect and all relevant actions of the Body are to halt immediately and the= decision described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 which is re= levant to the invocation of this Procedure shall not be acted upon or imple= mented or output in any matter whatsoever until the LLG makes a decision co= ncerning it and all related discussions. If either Step 0 or Step 1 is not = satisfied within the delay interval described in the Main Provision of Sect= ion 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this Procedure w= ill not be considered to be underway or in effect, and the Body can proceed= as it was and the aforementioned time delay shall continue elapsing (havin= g never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied within the t= ime delay interval aforementioned, then the elapse of said delay will immed= iately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply and be obeyed even if its = applicability is not recognized by the leadership of the Body in a sufficie= ntly timely manner.
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 3: Once such decision (a= s referenced in Step 2 of this Procedure) is made by the LLG, this Procedur= e is completed and this Body shall immediately and fully act accordingly an= d in good faith with the decision of the LLG (regardless of their original = decision concerning the question or proposal). If the relevant issue is nev= er resolved by the LLG during the meeting during which they are notified of= the usage of this procedure, then the default position on the question or = proposal shall fully apply and this Body cannot again entertain or take up = such or related question or proposal (or other implementation thereof), unl= ess the new proposal be to cease some relevant action and comply with Secti= on 1 Clause 7, until the LLG so decides; while this lattermost condition ap= plies, this Procedure shall be considered to be ongoing and in effect.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of being censored, as referenc= ed in this provision, refers to the provisions of Section 1 Clause 10; the = default (or default state or default position) herein referenced is that wh= ich is described in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 2.

Clause 10: The Body shall have the power to censor its own= members in a formal manner. The Body shall, in advance, decide regulations= concerning the censorship of any of their members via unanimous and explic= it decision after appropriate notice to all members. Any decision to actual= ly implement the censoring of any member must be made by unanimous decision= of all members, excepting the subject of the proposed censorship, and only= upon appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any case, no state of censorship= shall endure for more than one-hundred forty-four full calendrical days. C= onstraints on participation or decision making within the Body which are to= result from censorship shall only be those which accord with and result fr= om the policy of the LLG (including this charter) and the explicit, prior i= nternal regulations of the Body.

Cl= ause 11: The Body shall immediately, during its first meeting after incorpo= ration according to Section 3, undertake to establish internal rules and re= gulations which satisfy and enable the provisions of this section (id est: = Section 1).

___


*** Section 2 - Composition:

= Clause 0 - Membership:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Body shall consist of an odd num= ber of members, numbering at least five, who shall be members of the commun= ity or people acceptable to the Body and the LLG and who accept their membe= rship to the Body.
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership = of the Body shall be =E2=80=8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides = =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the= LLG.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (later) selections and (intern= al) regulations of its membership shall be under the primary, autonomous, a= nd direct authority and review of the Body itself, subject to the following= conditions:
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: Any regular/normal sele= ction of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two ca= lendrical years plus six calendrical months after both the original establi= shment of this Body and the incorporation of this Body according to Section= 3.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any change to such selection o= r regulation shall become effective only upon due notice to all members and= the elapse of fourteen full calendrical days after its passage, excepting = the case of an emergency as determined by an at-least-two-thirds supermajor= ity of the attending members.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All membership applications t= o the Body and notice for such application shall be entirely public.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Sub= clause E: All eligibility requirements for membership to the Body shall be = entirely subject to review and change by the LLG and must be explicitly est= ablished, with the explicit permission of the LLG, prior to the selection o= f any new membership of the Body. This and other basic internal regulations= shall be the first business to be determined by the Body during its first = official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2.

Clause 1 - Organization: The Body shall govern and organize = itself - and design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standa= rds, etc. - =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such does not conflict with th= e decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2= =80=8B. Such basic internal regulations shall be the first business to be d= etermined by the Body during its first official meeting according to Sectio= n 2 Clause 2.

Clause 2 - Event of C= omposition and First Meeting: This Body shall be first composed on the earl= iest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January or 1 June which is at least = thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, twenty-four-hour-long intervals a= fter its incorporation (as described in Section 3). It shall then officiall= y meet for the first time, at a time and manner according to the wishes of = all of its members. Its first business shall be to determine its basic inte= rnal rules and regulations pursuant to each provision of this charter.

___


*** Sectio= n 3 - Incorporation:

Clause 0: This= body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the completion and simultane= ous fulfillment of each of the following conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: The fi= rst membership of this Body having been properly selected, satisfying Secti= on 2 Clause 0 with regard to people who have capacity and willingness to ma= intain and realize active membership in the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: A general= name for this Body is determined by the LLG in an official act thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2= Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisfaction of all other condit= ions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of an explicit declaration and= granting of incorporation of and to the Body by the LLG occurs.=C2=A0

=C2=A0",

where:

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM,= Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote:
In addition to the two other proposals regarding=C2=A0 unofficial conte= nt, included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out that= he had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are considerin= g here is listed below as number six.

This motion is now= waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it.=C2=A0

<= div>.karis.=C2=A0


= Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences

Motion 4: "The LLG shall adopt an o= fficial policy that the LLG or some body constituted by it for such purpose= shall search for and monitor social media or blog platforms, accounts, pag= es, profiles, groups, communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entit= ies") which in any way whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or= other LLG-adopted logical languages and which are not clearly human, perso= nal, non-promoting, or unofficial - and that such a body shall request such= entities to prominently display a disclaimer stating that they are unoffic= ial and not endorsed by the LLG."
=C2=A0* I noted the following caveat with= the original discussion which became a motion: "(I do not think that = we can enforce such requests, just make them. But having an official policy= about addressing them may be good and gives us some moral 'standing= 9;)"
=C2= =A0* Moved by me, seconded by gleki.

___
=
Unofficialness Disclaimer
<= div>
Motion 5: "All non-official p= ages or content on *.lojba= n.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the websit= e is owned and managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents ar= e not necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not= reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of the s= ame."
* Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.



=C2=A0**** Here it is! ****


Motion 6: "There sh= all be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2= =80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LL= G -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (= insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and appli= cation of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant=C2=A0to the content of th= e aforementioned motion proposals=C2=A0(id est: Motion 4 or= Motion 5), provided the passage of at least one thereof,= =E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which shall search = for either potential violations of the same or appropriate content which sh= ould be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandat= e, and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to th= e aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but does = not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said conte= nt, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendations pertai= ning to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, vacuous, and= =E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals= =C2=A0(Motion 4, Motion 5)=C2=A0both do not= pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be inferior= to and subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of = the LLG and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or conten= t which is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it ma= y search for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officia= lly=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and e= nforcement =E2=80=8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in= the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B. The body shall consist of an odd n= umber of members, numbering at least five. The body shall publish all of it= s =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs= =E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websi= tes and entities and other subjects, according to its own discretion or exp= licit and direct command by the LLG, as to its standards and policies once = such are concretely established=E2=80=8B. Whilst the body is constituted, t= he LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control over, but= not necessarily responsibility for, the body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B= or decisions or actions or methods or works, as well as any matter belongi= ng to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview; the body shall govern = and organize itself and design and enforce its own internal rules, its exte= rnal standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict with the de= cisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B= . The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B the first= 1 January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after whic= h point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendrica= l =E2=80=8Byears and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2= =80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and di= scontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B and su= ch expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official act= ion of the LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously= )=E2=80=8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, standard= s, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B and become t= he direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and remain a= ctive and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, an= d other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of th= e LLG=E2=80=8B until the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of another bo= dy or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have p= urview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein described (in wh= ich case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, de= cisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devol= ved to it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80= =8Bmembership of the body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2= =80=8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate= , which shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG; thereafter, all othe= r selection and regulation of its membership shall be under the primary aut= hority and review of the body itself, although any regular selection of new= membership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical ye= ars and six calendrical months after the original establishment of the body= =E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership; all membership application= s and notice for such application shall be public; eligibility=C2=A0require= ments for membership to the body shall be subject to review and change by t= he LLG and must be explicitly established, with explicit permission of the = LLG, prior to the selection of any new membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The= name of the body herein constituted shall be determined by the LLG during = or prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membership.<= b style=3D"background-color:initial;font-family:"times new roman"= ,serif">=E2=80=8B"
<= /div>
<= /div>

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Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


_______________________________________________
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Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


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http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


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