Received: from localhost ([::1]:49390 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1earAB-0006R8-IS; Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:54:03 -0800 Received: from mail-yb0-f175.google.com ([209.85.213.175]:37489) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ear9c-0006OU-MO for llg-members@lojban.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:53:31 -0800 Received: by mail-yb0-f175.google.com with SMTP id p83so5045055yba.4 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:53:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=UyRuTJ0GJFNHvN7k9d2iKwLYxya1qHOgfXnvNdoz0bM=; b=pwAEUqefjyRQ3AhI/V5C7h/af8TaA7WD2W7/oI9P1WuGD908Q2TEzecgP0AciJUIgv Vl/Qtdu6wjWgwXj+h9iHIy6IA/tjONkfELKdz4un/B7UCxdlf8LhY7yGCXFoKQhMR8VN YEn7/ET1/FQdX/8BAxcHRMiLfj+cA9ZZddse7Kn5Xb/ZQrZyHrOLMCaWBR7gCBx9uHTj J5dkwAHfxdnwaXPUlzOnobQABdpt0iicCUIj6TOD3rg2gUXlmJynmza7HEUg5nxLbWia DfERNrWCBN2PlJSUreJaD0UiakBel2e439Ut9qPrj3MIwmtzY/O7ss5JjeCLHytga1Hz /N2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=UyRuTJ0GJFNHvN7k9d2iKwLYxya1qHOgfXnvNdoz0bM=; b=uBOE/5N/8xMiUNNinGRPbWrOILGNsBD3ZcyLtZQehfStAPVZSyXWLxw4Ylhp9+LHLK bWO0SQv9VOXRvGXjXJn1UvvEzw2eIaNGQQKKVfIIQOEac+42mzRaoPGYrLC0+kubnl8Y LHS7RxjQSg+gULZGNAAu7626O9eqW2I19lQHiePsTovCXQdSB8ZJog4pOdEBQTWjSHOE Vq+XyGV37s0fn8ryMO/kC5m//NgORyNXvK1S/WFwPgtV38jEWQ4w27FeoWCe3e9jV7pS vjDWwTx+8kZ/1jsiKkLAiLENGuDah2EuGk4lYwR+FX9BvkfJTYsKYdhvk2yYXpFOFTGW +hRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLKHpFnlKTbltHezMrjK+q/I6CQ+/kuWzXKqDqN7T8FCCz8cDl2 S+ArxAi74kVcAJ5YoxzExGEoQGj4SzKUCAe1zG03Rg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovXDmC3B82MkivEFIAXSCbc9/LCfhpOvkd3lt+AF+qYGS58ssLicsaWs6R5bAbm4pmDNUw3uRdG8VdQ9JYtWS0= X-Received: by 10.37.180.130 with SMTP id o2mr29969526ybj.230.1515970401657; Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:53:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.199.2 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:52:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Curtis Franks Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:52:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Proposal : Investigation of Unofficialness X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8200108544863905116==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============8200108544863905116== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045ea5fe47e7980562c45dfa" --f403045ea5fe47e7980562c45dfa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The purpose of this body is to just implement controls. It will be no more abusive than its members are inclined to be - and perhaps less than that because of the additional protections which I included. If only Motion #5 is passed, then a lot of the worries expressed here are nullified because the organization will not be able to externally act except with respect to *.lojban.org (they can look into other things, but can do nothing beyond notifying the LLG about things which they perceive to be potential issues). Meanwhile, if Motion #4 or Motion #5 is passed, then I do not want the LLG to be stuck debating the particular details of those notifications - or even overseeing their implementation - for the next long while. Even if the community at lojban.org does all of the designing, we still may have to revisit the issue until one of their design proposals is finally accepted by us, possibly in each language or whatever other particular factors may arise. We should definitely outsource this stuff. Delegating to one person is sure to cause upset, so we might as well establish a body of several people who would be in charge of doing this work. I attempted to provide an adequate structure for such purposes. If you can figure out an alternative which satisfies these and other conditions, then I will be happy. On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Curtis Franks wrote: > I rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I hereb= y > proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next: > " > > ****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ****** > A motion and charter for a body: > > ___ > > > *** Section 0 - Establishment and Purpose: > > Clause 0: > =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2= =80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, > constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the au= thority of the LLG > -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B (according to its discretion) oversee,=E2= =80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and > (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and ap= plication > of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whichever of > the following items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (1) an= y > of aforementioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) any > similar policy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: According to its discretion, this same body add= itionally > shall search for both (1) potential violations of the same policies (as i= n > Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Section 0 Clause 0 > Subclause C), and (2) any content whatsoever which should be so disclaime= d > (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not necessari= ly > pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to the > aforementioned policies of the LLG) and which has been identified to be > appropriate for such disclaimer. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless of any other provision of the LLG or= this > motion (excluding Section 1 Clause 7), the primary focus of this body sha= ll > be on: (1) official-seeming accounts, pages, or other entities which are > not clearly personal and which are not endorsed by or under the direct > control of the LLG; (2) teaching materials concerning topics related to t= he > LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content which may be confused for being official= ly > endorsed by the LLG, particular that which makes proposals or analysis > concerning the structure or functionality of a language; (4) the curation > of LLG-associated or officially endorsed websites, publications, and > content within its purview. Only with rare and carefully considered > exception will this body concern itself with: (1) particular works in or > usages of any language or version thereof, particularly if they are > creative or primarily intended to be a non-instructive or > position-nonassertive texts/content concerning the structure or > functionality of a language; (2) obviously personal accounts or users who > do not claim official endorsement by the LLG for the content which they > publish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause 7 > shall be its primary legal, moral, operational, and intentional constrain= ts > and shall have dominance over nearly all other concerns. > > Clause 1: The body described in Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be simply > known as "the Body", "this Body", or (as appropriate) "it"; (note the > orthographic casing of the first two options). This motion, upon its > passage and entry into force, shall act as the charter for this Body and > shall be active policy of the LLG. > > Clause 2: This entire motion shall be inactive, vacuous, ineffective, and= =E2=80=8B > totally=E2=80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 both do not pass p= rior to > this motion or during the same meeting of the LLG as that in which this > motion was most recently proposed; (2) there is a failure to incorporate > this Body according to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D. 20= 20 > or within one full calendrical year of the passage of this motion by the > LLG (whichever is later); or (3) a directive according to or in the > pursuance of Section 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authorities therein > described. > > ___ > > > *** Section 1 - Operation and Constraints: > > Clause 0: This Body will autonomously regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-= =E2=80=8Bdesired > design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any s= uch notice, > protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Clause 0 in the st= ead of the > LLG directly=E2=80=8B. > > Clause 1: The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdec= ision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band > work to the LLG at least one per any twelve-month-long interval or > immediately upon the request of the LLG or upon its expiration or > termination. It shall save and preserve all documentation of such, as a > work of the Body, in perpetuity and in unmodified, properly maintained an= d > connected and organized, and complete form. The body shall proffer any > documentation to an appropriate law enforcement or legal official upon > their request. > > Clause 2: The Body will notify the pertinent websites and entities and > other subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clause 0), according to its own > discretion or according to the explicit and direct command by the LLG, as > to its standards and policies once such are concretely established=E2=80= =8B. Such > notification shall be only in a manner deemed suitable by the Body and > (when appropriate) the LLG directly. > > Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain t= otal > right of oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility > for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or me= thods or > works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B = or its > purview. > > Clause 4: All of this Body's authority shall be inferior to, derived from= , > and subsumed by that of the LLG or the law and shall be bounded by any > policy or command of the LLG or the law. It shall, in good faith, endeavo= r > to totally comply with and fulfill any such policy or command of LLG or t= he > law. It shall also be subject to the following conditions: > =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body shal= l > immediately cease to exist too. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter becomes inoperable or is totall= y deleted > or abolished, then this Body shall immediately cease to exist as if > naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Clause 2 appli= es > or is satisfied, then this charter is deemed to be totally inoperable. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any time and for any purpose (or none), the = LLG or > law may cause the utter and immediate termination of this Body or may hal= t > or direct any of its works, debates, or other processes. While under > investigation by the law or officers thereof, this body shall continue an= d > operate such that it complies with the directives of the law or the > aforementioned officer and reduces all other endeavors so as to maximize > its ability to comply therewith - and all other provisions to the contrar= y, > including those by or according to this charter, shall be ignored. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 3: The LLG (within the restrictions and permission= s of the > law) retains the sole right to edit or amend, add to, remove from, or > delete or abolish this charter or any policy of the LLG which sustains th= is > Body. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 4: In all cases, the law or officers thereof shall= be > superior to the LLG. > > Clause 5: The Body shall not notify or attempt to in any way regulate or > pressure any entity or content which is not subject to or the subject of > such LLG policy - although it may search for and review such content. > > Clause 6: If and when this Body finds such content as that which is > described in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does not have the authori= ty > to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, or if and when > there is lack of implemented policy or mandate concerning some content, i= t > shall - according to its discretion - notify the LLG of the situation and > its recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body shall = take no further > action regarding or relating to such content unless explicitly authorized > to do by the LLG. > > Clause 7: > Main provision: Regardless of other provisions of the LLG, the actions o= f > this Body shall be minimalistic, restrained, friendly and non-aggressive, > and welcoming of experimentation with or in - as well as welcoming of any > usage or promotion of - any version of any language which is endorsed or > promoted by the LLG or which otherwise belongs to the purview or mandate = of > this Body or of the LLG (collectively described herein as "language(s)"). > It shall actively encourage further innovation, exploration, usage, > promotion, and creative or technical or casual exercise of such languages > in all of its external interactions. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never shall attack, defame, insult, o= r > pressure (1) any users/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or thei= r > associated communities) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any > version of any language or other related work; it shall never act in a > manner which stifles or discourages anyone from enjoying, exploring, usin= g, > or promoting any such language; it shall take especial care regarding > interactions with prospective or potentially new users, authors, and > community members, as well as people or entities with whom it has little > prior interaction. In such cases, it shall at most request that the > author(s): (1) sufficiently define new or experimental cmavo, gismu, rafs= i, > zi'evla, and cmene, as well as sufficiently define and indicate nonstanda= rd > definitions thereof (regardless of their newness or other nature) or of > lujvo; (2) sufficiently identify and explain nonstandard grammatical > structures which appear or are used within the content, or sufficiently > describe the version(s) of the language which they are employing therein. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular policy, decision, work, action, = or other > output by this body shall be explicitly and particularly reviewed against > the provisions of Section 0 and Section 1, particular Section 1 Clause 7, > and the standards thereof prior to its finalization and implementation. > Such review shall be conducted by the Body as a whole or by its leadershi= p. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt within the membership of th= e Body > concerning a potential decision or course of action, its primary preferen= ce > shall be inaction, acceptance, and community-building. > > > Clause 8: > =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first composition (as described in Se= ction 2 > Clause 2), this Body shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80= =8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears plus > six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the completion of Section 1 Clause 8 > Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disauthorized, dissolved=E2= =80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B > discontinued, and disincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifetime i= s > extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by expl= icit=E2=80=8B > official action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natural expiration = of > the Body. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80=8B (= as described in Section 1 > Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, work(s), > decisions, and other output shall return to=E2=80=8B and become the direc= t > responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body (inc= luding > thereof) shall be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such things > shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, standards= , work(s), > decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the respo= nsibility > of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherw= ise or modifies or > cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the establishment an= d constitution of another > (second) body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or > shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the Body herein > described (according to Section 0) - in which case, all aforementioned > pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other output= =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be > inherited by and devolved to this second body or organization unless > otherwise specified by the LLG. > > Clause 9: > Main provision: All questions or proposals of whether to notify an > external entity or subject (as described in Section 0 or Section 1) must = be > clearly and explicitly stated to the members of the Body in an organized > and easy to find manner during an official meeting of the Body; no extern= al > or externally-oriented action or implementation resulting from or resolvi= ng > such questions or proposals, including any notification, may be conducted > or undertaken in any portion or degree, until the elapse of four full > calendrical days plus a unit of time (which is to be determined by the Bo= dy > according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) after: (1) appropriate debat= e > is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant decision is appropriately > developed and agreed to by the members (possibly including the special > determination of the aforementioned unit of time); and (3) explicit and > particular certification of the result regarding its compliance with > Section 1 Clause 7 according to the internal regulations of the body. The > following conditions and procedures shall further apply: > =E2=80=A2 Condition 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforementioned uni= t of time > which is to be determined by the Body for the delay of an implementation = or > action based upon an externally-oriented decision shall in all cases be a= t > least ten full calendrical days. If no special and explicit decision > concerning the value of this unit is made during the accompanying > more-general decision/resolution, or is made in accordance with or by > internal regulations of and by the Body in advance, then its value shall = be > ten full calendrical days. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Appropriat= e and > actionable agreement by the members will, in all cases, be constituted by > the explicit concent of at least a strict majority of the attending membe= rs > and in compliance with further internal regulations made by the Body in > advance. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential externa= l actions > or externally-oriented decisions, the default position and result of any > proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed to by a stric= t > majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a total lack of > any notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the external enti= ty > or subject) in anything related to the question of proposal in any manner > whatsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If no clear, relevant, > non-default-valued decision for a given question or proposal is > appropriately made and agreed to, then such a default result shall be > perfectly obeyed by the Body and all members thereof. > =E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the following procedure is underwa= y and in > effect, the aforementioned delay (defined in Main Provision of Section 1 > Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall not elapse further, > instead becoming paused; upon the failure or completion of any attempt at > the utilization of this procedure, such delay shall resume its elapsing > from the state in which it was paused; completion or fulfillment of Step = 0 > or Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay until both Step 0 and > Step 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure shall follow the > following steps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually exchangeable): > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the Body can= , for any reason > whatsoever (or none), formally request that the LLG review any > non-default-valued resolution or decision of any such question or proposa= l > described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such request must = be > submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion which the > members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying time interval > described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 > Clause 9 Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or accepting su= ch > petitions, then the member can instead make explicit (to the other member= s > of the Body) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and is open to > accepting such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a timely > manner at the next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (or th= is > Step is not satisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never invoke= d. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as des= cribed in Step 0 > of this Procedure) is made by the member, they are also to explicitly and > clearly notify the Body of the same and of their intended invocation of > this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so within > the unit of time described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 an= d > in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of this Pr= ocedure) are > fulfilled (in either order), this Procedure takes effect and all relevant > actions of the Body are to halt immediately and the decision described in > the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 which is relevant to the > invocation of this Procedure shall not be acted upon or implemented or > output in any matter whatsoever until the LLG makes a decision concerning > it and all related discussions. If either Step 0 or Step 1 is not satisfi= ed > within the delay interval described in the Main Provision of Section 1 > Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this Procedure will > not be considered to be underway or in effect, and the Body can proceed a= s > it was and the aforementioned time delay shall continue elapsing (having > never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied within the > time delay interval aforementioned, then the elapse of said delay will > immediately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply and be obeyed even = if > its applicability is not recognized by the leadership of the Body in a > sufficiently timely manner. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 3: Once such decision (as referenced in St= ep 2 of this > Procedure) is made by the LLG, this Procedure is completed and this Body > shall immediately and fully act accordingly and in good faith with the > decision of the LLG (regardless of their original decision concerning the > question or proposal). If the relevant issue is never resolved by the LLG > during the meeting during which they are notified of the usage of this > procedure, then the default position on the question or proposal shall > fully apply and this Body cannot again entertain or take up such or relat= ed > question or proposal (or other implementation thereof), unless the new > proposal be to cease some relevant action and comply with Section 1 Claus= e > 7, until the LLG so decides; while this lattermost condition applies, thi= s > Procedure shall be considered to be ongoing and in effect. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of being censored, as re= ferenced in this > provision, refers to the provisions of Section 1 Clause 10; the default (= or > default state or default position) herein referenced is that which is > described in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 2. > > Clause 10: The Body shall have the power to censor its own members in a > formal manner. The Body shall, in advance, decide regulations concerning > the censorship of any of their members via unanimous and explicit decisio= n > after appropriate notice to all members. Any decision to actually impleme= nt > the censoring of any member must be made by unanimous decision of all > members, excepting the subject of the proposed censorship, and only upon > appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any case, no state of censorship sha= ll > endure for more than one-hundred forty-four full calendrical days. > Constraints on participation or decision making within the Body which are > to result from censorship shall only be those which accord with and resul= t > from the policy of the LLG (including this charter) and the explicit, pri= or > internal regulations of the Body. > > Clause 11: The Body shall immediately, during its first meeting after > incorporation according to Section 3, undertake to establish internal rul= es > and regulations which satisfy and enable the provisions of this section (= id > est: Section 1). > > ___ > > > *** Section 2 - Composition: > > Clause 0 - Membership: > =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Body shall consist of an odd number of memb= ers, > numbering at least five, who shall be members of the community or people > acceptable to the Body and the LLG and who accept their membership to the > Body. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the B= ody shall be =E2=80=8Bselected in > a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be > determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (later) selections and (i= nternal) > regulations of its membership shall be under the primary, autonomous, and > direct authority and review of the Body itself, subject to the following > conditions: > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: Any regular/normal selection of ne= w membership > shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years plus s= ix > calendrical months after both the original establishment of this Body and > the incorporation of this Body according to Section 3. > =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any change to such selection or re= gulation shall > become effective only upon due notice to all members and the elapse of > fourteen full calendrical days after its passage, excepting the case of a= n > emergency as determined by an at-least-two-thirds supermajority of the > attending members. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All membership applications to the Body and not= ice for > such application shall be entirely public. > =E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility requirements for membership to = the Body > shall be entirely subject to review and change by the LLG and must be > explicitly established, with the explicit permission of the LLG, prior to > the selection of any new membership of the Body. This and other basic > internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the > Body during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. > > Clause 1 - Organization: The Body shall govern and organize itself - and > design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, etc. - > =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such does not conflict with the decision= s of the > LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. Such basic = internal > regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the Body duri= ng > its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. > > Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This Body shall be > first composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January = or > 1 June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, > twenty-four-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described in > Section 3). It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a time a= nd > manner according to the wishes of all of its members. Its first business > shall be to determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursuant t= o > each provision of this charter. > > ___ > > > *** Section 3 - Incorporation: > > Clause 0: This body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the > completion and simultaneous fulfillment of each of the following conditio= ns: > =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: The first membership of this Body having been p= roperly > selected, satisfying Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to people who have > capacity and willingness to maintain and realize active membership in the > Body. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is determined by t= he LLG in > an official act thereof. > =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisfaction of al= l other > conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of an explicit > declaration and granting of incorporation of and to the Body by the LLG > occurs. > > ", > > where: > =E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and Motion 5 shall be understood to = refer to > the same motions as those so labelled in this current email chain or any > modification, successor, continuance, or replacement of the same. > > On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Services < > comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote: > >> In addition to the two other proposals regarding unofficial content, >> included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out that = he >> had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are considering >> here is listed below as number six. >> >> This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it. >> >> .karis. >> >> >>> *Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences* >>> >>> *Motion 4: "*The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG or >>> some body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and monit= or >>> social media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, >>> communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any way >>> whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted logic= al >>> languages and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, or >>> unofficial - and that such a body shall request such entities to >>> prominently display a disclaimer stating that they are unofficial and n= ot >>> endorsed by the LLG.*"* >>> * * I noted the following caveat with the original discussion which >>> became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enforce such requests, ju= st >>> make them. But having an official policy about addressing them may be g= ood >>> and gives us some moral 'standing')"* >>> * * Moved by me, seconded by gleki.* >>> >>> *___* >>> >>> *Unofficialness Disclaimer* >>> >>> *Motion 5: "*All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >>> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >>> managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not >>> necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not >>> reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of th= e >>> same.*"* >>> ** Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.* >>> >>> >> >> >> **** Here it is! **** >> >> >> *Motion 6: "*There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2= =80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B >>> and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -= =E2=80=8B which >>> will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as poss= ible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official >>> implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with and >>> pursuant to the content of the aforementioned motion proposals *(id >>> est: Motion 4 or Motion 5)*, provided the passage of at least one >>> thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which s= hall search for >>> either potential violations of the same or appropriate content which sh= ould >>> be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate= , >>> and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to t= he >>> aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but doe= s >>> not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said >>> content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendatio= ns >>> pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, va= cuous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B >>> ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals *(Motion 4, Motion 5)* b= oth >>> do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be in= ferior to and >>> subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of the = LLG >>> and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content wh= ich >>> is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may se= arch >>> for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially= =E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired >>> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any= such notice, >>> protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80= =8B. The body shall >>> consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The body >>> shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and >>> will notify the pertinent websites and entities and other subjects, >>> according to its own discretion or explicit and direct command by the L= LG, >>> as to its standards and policies once such are concretely established= =E2=80=8B. >>> Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total rig= ht of >>> oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility for, the >>> body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods o= r works, as >>> well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its p= urview; the >>> body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own >>> internal rules, its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such d= oes not >>> conflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents= of this >>> motion=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B the first 1 >>> January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after whi= ch >>> point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendri= cal =E2=80=8Byears and six >>> =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bb= e dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and >>> discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B = and such >>> expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official ac= tion of the >>> LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80= =8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, >>> standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B = and become >>> the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and rem= ain active >>> and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and = other output=E2=80=8B (as >>> appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until the= LLG=E2=80=8B >>> explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the est= ablishment and constitution >>> of another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which ha= s or >>> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein >>> described (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy,= standards, >>> work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited = by and devolved to >>> it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8B= membership of the >>> body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bselected in= a manner which the LLG >>> decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be determined later=E2= =80=8B by the LLG; >>> thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membership shall = be >>> under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although any >>> regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse= of >>> fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the origin= al >>> establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membershi= p; all >>> membership applications and notice for such application shall be public= ; >>> eligibility requirements for membership to the body shall be subject to >>> review and change by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with >>> explicit permission of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new >>> membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constitute= d shall be >>> determined by the LLG during or prior to, and as part of, the selection= of >>> its first membership.*=E2=80=8B"* >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > --f403045ea5fe47e7980562c45dfa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The purpose of this body is to just implement co= ntrols. It will be no more abusive than its members are inclined to be - an= d perhaps less than that because of the additional protections which I incl= uded. If only Motion #5 is passed, then a lot of the worries expressed here= are nullified because the organization will not be able to externally act = except with respect to=C2=A0*.lojban.org= =C2=A0 (they can look into other things, but can do nothing beyond notifyin= g the LLG about things which they perceive to be potential issues).

= Meanwhile, if Motion #4 or Motion #5 is passed, then I do not want the LLG = to be stuck debating the particular details of those notifications - or eve= n overseeing their implementation - for the next long while. Even if the co= mmunity at lojban.org does all of the des= igning, we still may have to revisit the issue until one of their design pr= oposals is finally accepted by us, possibly in each language or whatever ot= her particular factors may arise. We should definitely outsource this stuff= .
<= br>
Delegating to one person = is sure to cause upset, so we might as well establish a body of several peo= ple who would be in charge of doing this work. I attempted to provide an ad= equate structure for such purposes.

If you can figure out an alternative whi= ch satisfies these and other conditions, then I will be happy.
=

On Sat, Jan= 6, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
I rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'un= move' it. I hereby proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described = next:
=C2=A0"

<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ******
A motion and charter for a body:
=
___

<= div class=3D"gmail_default">
= *** Section 0 - Establishment and Purpose:

Clause 0:
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized,= =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body= =E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which will=E2= =80=8B (according to its discretion) oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, a= nd (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and a= pplication of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whi= chever of the following items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect= : (1) any of aforementioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); = (2) any similar policy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it= .
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: According to its discretion, this= same body additionally shall search for both (1) potential violations of t= he same policies (as in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with S= ection 0 Clause 0 Subclause C), and (2) any content whatsoever which should= be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, a= nd not necessarily pertaining to only websites or entities or content subje= ct to the aforementioned policies of the LLG) and which has been identified= to be appropriate for such disclaimer.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclaus= e C: Regardless of any other provision of the LLG or this motion (excluding= Section 1 Clause 7), the primary focus of this body shall be on: (1) offic= ial-seeming accounts, pages, or other entities which are not clearly person= al and which are not endorsed by or under the direct control of the LLG; (2= ) teaching materials concerning topics related to the LLG; (3) syntax-orien= ted content which may be confused for being officially endorsed by the LLG,= particular that which makes proposals or analysis concerning the structure= or functionality of a language; (4) the curation of LLG-associated or offi= cially endorsed websites, publications, and content within its purview. Onl= y with rare and carefully considered exception will this body concern itsel= f with: (1) particular works in or usages of any language or version thereo= f, particularly if they are creative or primarily intended to be a non-inst= ructive or position-nonassertive texts/content concerning the structure or = functionality of a language; (2) obviously personal accounts or users who d= o not claim official endorsement by the LLG for the content which they publ= ish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause 7 shall b= e its primary legal, moral, operational, and intentional constraints and sh= all have dominance over nearly all other concerns.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default">Clause 1:= The body described in Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be simply known as &= quot;the Body", "this Body", or (as appropriate) "it&qu= ot;; (note the orthographic casing of the first two options). This motion, = upon its passage and entry into force, shall act as the charter for this Bo= dy and shall be active policy of the LLG.

Clause 2: This ent= ire motion shall be inactive, vacuous, ineffective, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2= =80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 both do not pass prior to this= motion or during the same meeting of the LLG as that in which this motion = was most recently proposed; (2) there is a failure to incorporate this Body= according to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D. 2020 or withi= n one full calendrical year of the passage of this motion by the LLG (which= ever is later); or (3) a directive according to or in the pursuance of Sect= ion 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authorities therein described.

___


*** Section 1 - Operation and Constraints:

Clause 0: This Body will autonomously regulate the officially=E2= =80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforce= ment =E2=80=8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Secti= on 0=E2=80=8B Clause 0 in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B.=C2=A0

Clause 1: The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2= =80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band = work to the LLG at least one per any twelve-month-long interval or immediat= ely upon the request of the LLG or upon its expiration or termination. It s= hall save and preserve all documentation of such, as a work of the Body, in= perpetuity and in unmodified, properly maintained and connected and organi= zed, and complete form. The body shall proffer any documentation to an appr= opriate law enforcement or legal official upon their request.
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">
= Clause 2: The Body will notify the pertinent websites and entities and othe= r subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clause 0), according to its own discretio= n or according to the explicit and direct command by the LLG, as to its sta= ndards and policies once such are concretely established=E2=80=8B. Such not= ification shall be only in a manner deemed suitable by the Body and (when a= ppropriate) the LLG directly.

Clause 3: Whilst the Body is con= stituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and contro= l over, but not necessarily responsibility for, the Body and any of its oup= ut=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods or works, as well as any mat= ter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview.

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body sha= ll immediately cease to exist too.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: = If this charter becomes inoperable or is totally deleted or abolished, then= this Body shall immediately cease to exist as if naturally expired (as in = Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Clause 2 applies or is satisfied, then th= is charter is deemed to be totally inoperable.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 C= ondition 2: At any time and for any purpose (or none), the LLG or law may c= ause the utter and immediate termination of this Body or may halt or direct= any of its works, debates, or other processes. While under investigation b= y the law or officers thereof, this body shall continue and operate such th= at it complies with the directives of the law or the aforementioned officer= and reduces all other endeavors so as to maximize its ability to comply th= erewith - and all other provisions to the contrary, including those by or a= ccording to this charter, shall be ignored.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Cond= ition 3: The LLG (within the restrictions and permissions of the law) retai= ns the sole right to edit or amend, add to, remove from, or delete or aboli= sh this charter or any policy of the LLG which sustains this Body.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 4: In all cases, the law or officers thereof = shall be superior to the LLG.

Clause 5: The Body shall not not= ify or attempt to in any way regulate or pressure any entity or content whi= ch is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy - although it may se= arch for and review such content.
=
Clause 6: If and when this B= ody finds such content as that which is described in Section 0 Clause 0 Sub= clause B but does not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with res= pect to said content, or if and when there is lack of implemented policy or= mandate concerning some content, it shall - according to its discretion - = notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendations pertaining to such= =E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body shall take no further action regarding or rela= ting to such content unless explicitly authorized to do by the LLG.<= /div>
Clause 7:
=C2=A0Main provision: Regardless of other provisions of= the LLG, the actions of this Body shall be minimalistic, restrained, frien= dly and non-aggressive, and welcoming of experimentation with or in - as we= ll as welcoming of any usage or promotion of - any version of any language = which is endorsed or promoted by the LLG or which otherwise belongs to the = purview or mandate of this Body or of the LLG (collectively described herei= n as "language(s)"). It shall actively encourage further innovati= on, exploration, usage, promotion, and creative or technical or casual exer= cise of such languages in all of its external interactions.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never shall attack, defame, insult, or = pressure (1) any users/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or their = associated communities) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any versio= n of any language or other related work; it shall never act in a manner whi= ch stifles or discourages anyone from enjoying, exploring, using, or promot= ing any such language; it shall take especial care regarding interactions w= ith prospective or potentially new users, authors, and community members, a= s well as people or entities with whom it has little prior interaction. In = such cases, it shall at most request that the author(s): (1) sufficiently d= efine new or experimental cmavo, gismu, rafsi, zi'evla, and cmene, as w= ell as sufficiently define and indicate nonstandard definitions thereof (re= gardless of their newness or other nature) or of lujvo; (2) sufficiently id= entify and explain nonstandard grammatical structures which appear or are u= sed within the content, or sufficiently describe the version(s) of the lang= uage which they are employing therein.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause= B: Any particular policy, decision, work, action, or other output by this = body shall be explicitly and particularly reviewed against the provisions o= f Section 0 and Section 1, particular Section 1 Clause 7, and the standards= thereof prior to its finalization and implementation. Such review shall be= conducted by the Body as a whole or by its leadership.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt within the membership of the Bod= y concerning a potential decision or course of action, its primary preferen= ce shall be inaction, acceptance, and community-building.


=
Clause 8:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first comp= osition (as described in Section 2 Clause 2), this Body shall exist for =E2= =80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears plus six =E2= =80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: = Then (upon the completion of Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bs= hall =E2=80=8Bbe disauthorized, dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80= =8B discontinued, and disincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifetime= is extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by ex= plicit=E2=80=8B official action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natur= al expiration of the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it= =E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80=8B (as described in Section 1 Clause 8 = Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpoli= cies, standards, work(s), decisions, and other output shall return to=E2=80= =8B and become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all docume= ntation by the Body (including thereof) shall be permanently given to the s= ole care of LLG; such things shall persist and remain active and valid =E2= =80=8Bas policies, standards, work(s), decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B= (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (= 1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwise or modifies or cancels the= m;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the establishment and constitutio= n of another (second) body or organization under the authority of the LLG w= hich has or shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the Body= herein described (according to Section 0) - in which case, all aforementio= ned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other output= =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to this second body o= r organization unless otherwise specified by the LLG.

=
Clause 9= :
=C2=A0Main provision: All questions or proposals of whether to notify= an external entity or subject (as described in Section 0 or Section 1) mus= t be clearly and explicitly stated to the members of the Body in an organiz= ed and easy to find manner during an official meeting of the Body; no exter= nal or externally-oriented action or implementation resulting from or resol= ving such questions or proposals, including any notification, may be conduc= ted or undertaken in any portion or degree, until the elapse of four full c= alendrical days plus a unit of time (which is to be determined by the Body = according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) after: (1) appropriate debate = is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant decision is appropriately deve= loped and agreed to by the members (possibly including the special determin= ation of the aforementioned unit of time); and (3) explicit and particular = certification of the result regarding its compliance with Section 1 Clause = 7 according to the internal regulations of the body. The following conditio= ns and procedures shall further apply:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition= 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforementioned unit of time which is to be= determined by the Body for the delay of an implementation or action based = upon an externally-oriented decision shall in all cases be at least ten ful= l calendrical days. If no special and explicit decision concerning the valu= e of this unit is made during the accompanying more-general decision/resolu= tion, or is made in accordance with or by internal regulations of and by th= e Body in advance, then its value shall be ten full calendrical days.
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Ap= propriate and actionable agreement by the members will, in all cases, be co= nstituted by the explicit concent of at least a strict majority of the atte= nding members and in compliance with further internal regulations made by t= he Body in advance.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decisi= on: Concerning potential external actions or externally-oriented decisions,= the default position and result of any proposed action or question shall, = unless explicitly agreed to by a strict majority of the membership, be utte= r inaction (including a total lack of any notification or pressure, or indi= cation thereof, of the external entity or subject) in anything related to t= he question of proposal in any manner whatsoever and compliance with Sectio= n 1 Clause 7. If no clear, relevant, non-default-valued decision for a give= n question or proposal is appropriately made and agreed to, then such a def= ault result shall be perfectly obeyed by the Body and all members thereof.<= /font>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the following procedur= e is underway and in effect, the aforementioned delay (defined in Main Prov= ision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall no= t elapse further, instead becoming paused; upon the failure or completion o= f any attempt at the utilization of this procedure, such delay shall resume= its elapsing from the state in which it was paused; completion or fulfillm= ent of Step 0 or Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay until both= Step 0 and Step 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure shall follow= the following steps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually exchangeable):
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored m= ember of the Body can, for any reason whatsoever (or none), formally reques= t that the LLG review any non-default-valued resolution or decision of any = such question or proposal described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clau= se 9; such request must be submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in= a fashion which the members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying= time interval described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in= Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or acc= epting such petitions, then the member can instead make explicit (to the ot= her members of the Body) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and i= s open to accepting such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a t= imely manner at the next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (o= r this Step is not satisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never i= nvoked.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst su= ch notice or intention (as described in Step 0 of this Procedure) is made b= y the member, they are also to explicitly and clearly notify the Body of th= e same and of their intended invocation of this provision (Section 1 Clause= 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so within the unit of time described in the= Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0= .
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and= Step 1 (each of this Procedure) are fulfilled (in either order), this Proc= edure takes effect and all relevant actions of the Body are to halt immedia= tely and the decision described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9= which is relevant to the invocation of this Procedure shall not be acted u= pon or implemented or output in any matter whatsoever until the LLG makes a= decision concerning it and all related discussions. If either Step 0 or St= ep 1 is not satisfied within the delay interval described in the Main Provi= sion of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this= Procedure will not be considered to be underway or in effect, and the Body= can proceed as it was and the aforementioned time delay shall continue ela= psing (having never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied = within the time delay interval aforementioned, then the elapse of said dela= y will immediately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply and be obeyed = even if its applicability is not recognized by the leadership of the Body i= n a sufficiently timely manner.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2= =80=A2 Step 3: Once such decision (as referenced in Step 2 of this Procedur= e) is made by the LLG, this Procedure is completed and this Body shall imme= diately and fully act accordingly and in good faith with the decision of th= e LLG (regardless of their original decision concerning the question or pro= posal). If the relevant issue is never resolved by the LLG during the meeti= ng during which they are notified of the usage of this procedure, then the = default position on the question or proposal shall fully apply and this Bod= y cannot again entertain or take up such or related question or proposal (o= r other implementation thereof), unless the new proposal be to cease some r= elevant action and comply with Section 1 Clause 7, until the LLG so decides= ; while this lattermost condition applies, this Procedure shall be consider= ed to be ongoing and in effect.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2= =80=A2 Definitions: The state of being censored, as referenced in this prov= ision, refers to the provisions of Section 1 Clause 10; the default (or def= ault state or default position) herein referenced is that which is describe= d in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 2.

Clause 10: The Body shall= have the power to censor its own members in a formal manner. The Body shal= l, in advance, decide regulations concerning the censorship of any of their= members via unanimous and explicit decision after appropriate notice to al= l members. Any decision to actually implement the censoring of any member m= ust be made by unanimous decision of all members, excepting the subject of = the proposed censorship, and only upon appropriate agreement by the LLG; in= any case, no state of censorship shall endure for more than one-hundred fo= rty-four full calendrical days. Constraints on participation or decision ma= king within the Body which are to result from censorship shall only be thos= e which accord with and result from the policy of the LLG (including this c= harter) and the explicit, prior internal regulations of the Body.

<= /font>
Clause 11: The Body shall immediately, during its first meeting after i= ncorporation according to Section 3, undertake to establish internal rules = and regulations which satisfy and enable the provisions of this section (id= est: Section 1).

___


*** Section 2 - Co= mposition:

Clause 0 - Membership:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 S= ubclause A: The Body shall consist of an odd number of members, numbering a= t least five, who shall be members of the community or people acceptable to= the Body and the LLG and who accept their membership to the Body.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of = the Body shall be =E2=80=8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2= =80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LL= G.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (later) se= lections and (internal) regulations of its membership shall be under the pr= imary, autonomous, and direct authority and review of the Body itself, subj= ect to the following conditions:
<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2= =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: Any regular/normal selection of new membership shall= not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years plus six cale= ndrical months after both the original establishment of this Body and the i= ncorporation of this Body according to Section 3.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any change to such selection or regul= ation shall become effective only upon due notice to all members and the el= apse of fourteen full calendrical days after its passage, excepting the cas= e of an emergency as determined by an at-least-two-thirds supermajority of = the attending members.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All members= hip applications to the Body and notice for such application shall be entir= ely public.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility require= ments for membership to the Body shall be entirely subject to review and ch= ange by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with the explicit permi= ssion of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new membership of the Body.= This and other basic internal regulations shall be the first business to b= e determined by the Body during its first official meeting according to Sec= tion 2 Clause 2.

Clause 1 - Organization: The Body shall gover= n and organize itself - and design and enforce its own internal rules, its = external standards, etc. - =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such does not c= onflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of t= his motion=E2=80=8B. Such basic internal regulations shall be the first bus= iness to be determined by the Body during its first official meeting accord= ing to Section 2 Clause 2.

Clause 2 - Event of Composition and= First Meeting: This Body shall be first composed on the earliest instance = of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January or 1 June which is at least thirty-six mut= ually emptily-intersecting, twenty-four-hour-long intervals after its incor= poration (as described in Section 3). It shall then officially meet for the= first time, at a time and manner according to the wishes of all of its mem= bers. Its first business shall be to determine its basic internal rules and= regulations pursuant to each provision of this charter.

___


*** Section 3 - Incorporation:

<= div class=3D"gmail_default">Clause 0:= This body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the completion and simu= ltaneous fulfillment of each of the following conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: The first membership of this Body having been proper= ly selected, satisfying Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to people who have c= apacity and willingness to maintain and realize active membership in the Bo= dy.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is= determined by the LLG in an official act thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisfaction of all other = conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of an explicit declarati= on and granting of incorporation of and to the Body by the LLG occurs.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0",

where:
=C2=A0=E2=80=A2 An= y reference to Motion 4 and Motion 5 shall be understood to refer to the sa= me motions as those so labelled in this current email chain or any modifica= tion, successor, continuance, or replacement of the same.

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Services <c= omcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote:
In addition to the two other proposals= regarding=C2=A0 unofficial content, included below because this one refers= to them, Curtis pointed out that he had made three rather than two on this= topic. The one we are considering here is listed below as number six.
=
This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to secon= d it.=C2=A0

.karis.=C2=A0

=

Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences

Motion 4: "The LLG shall adopt an o= fficial policy that the LLG or some body constituted by it for such purpose= shall search for and monitor social media or blog platforms, accounts, pag= es, profiles, groups, communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entit= ies") which in any way whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or= other LLG-adopted logical languages and which are not clearly human, perso= nal, non-promoting, or unofficial - and that such a body shall request such= entities to prominently display a disclaimer stating that they are unoffic= ial and not endorsed by the LLG."
=C2=A0* I noted= the following caveat with the original discussion which became a motion: &= quot;(I do not think that we can enforce such requests, just make them. But= having an official policy about addressing them may be good and gives us s= ome moral 'standing')"
=C2=A0* Moved by me, seconde= d by gleki.

___

Unofficialness Disclaimer

Motion 5: "All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a d= isclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and managed by volun= tary people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized wi= th the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly c= omply with, official specifications of the same."
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">* Move= d by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.
=


<= div>
=C2=A0**** Here it is! ****

Motion 6: "There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, co= nstituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the author= ity of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2= =80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementat= ion and application of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant=C2=A0to the = content of the aforementioned motion proposals=C2=A0(id est= : Motion 4 or Motion 5), provided the passage of at least o= ne thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which sh= all search for either potential violations of the same or appropriate conte= nt which should be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or o= ther mandate, and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content su= bject to the aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such conten= t but does not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to= said content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendat= ions pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, v= acuous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if the aforementioned motion = proposals=C2=A0(Motion 4, Motion 5)=C2=A0bo= th do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be= inferior to and subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such p= olicy of the LLG and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity = or content which is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, altho= ugh it may search for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate th= e officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2=80= =8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer= =E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B. The body shall consist= of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The body shall publi= sh all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and will notify the perti= nent websites and entities and other subjects, according to its own discret= ion or explicit and direct command by the LLG, as to its standards and poli= cies once such are concretely established=E2=80=8B. Whilst the body is cons= tituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control= over, but not necessarily responsibility for, the body and any of its oupu= t=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods or works, as well as any matt= er belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview; the body sha= ll govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own internal rules= , its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict w= ith the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motio= n=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= the first 1 January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, = after which point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8B= calendrical =E2=80=8Byears and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and= then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80= =8B and discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80= =8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B of= ficial action of the LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described = previously)=E2=80=8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy= , standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B an= d become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist an= d remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, dec= isions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibi= lity of the LLG=E2=80=8B until the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwis= e=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of = another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or sh= all have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein descri= bed (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards= , work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by= and devolved to it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfi= rst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bsh= all be =E2=80=8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be a= ppropriate, which shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG; thereafter= , all other selection and regulation of its membership shall be under the p= rimary authority and review of the body itself, although any regular select= ion of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two cale= ndrical years and six calendrical months after the original establishment o= f the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership; all membership a= pplications and notice for such application shall be public; eligibility=C2= =A0requirements for membership to the body shall be subject to review and c= hange by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with explicit permissi= on of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new membership of the body.=E2= =80=8B The name of the body herein constituted shall be determined by the L= LG during or prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membershi= p.=E2=80=8B"
=
_____________________________________= __________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



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