Received: from [::1] (port=41300 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ebTVr-0003g1-8z; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 07:50:59 -0800 Received: from mail-ua0-f174.google.com ([209.85.217.174]:41901) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ebTVE-0003dx-84 for llg-members@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 07:50:27 -0800 Received: by mail-ua0-f174.google.com with SMTP id x10so11070358ual.8 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 07:50:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=8DB0gXZSYWhoXCclDqoGwfItE/B8JqjWmSHBb+/1Yx4=; b=FOriAkoNpgwqLM3qR3cKSs8AJMUxFIN/Ui1o0za1gg74FUfVdLdhbH7rONdcRnEi/T XnmZmczwLVzNH94tM567Ia7cxGD0HrwqotCQZ98q9k9XAqkalxWL4kHFKAzOal1yo5eO HveKEJNQdW3/Buxwn+dkNjLv34kOrCUrL8fGRsJ4K66ALZy4zzG0TKTEWuHnvbKFK6JG FkCyCKL3lyC8V7WJErMyoBeJa/2m7tGtSoKYISqvz3kWz8zzuL40avxFCN3EULLRTK0C tgEBnKrBieo13TW73z1G9pKyyRC41qBMsUSUwj8I6uWV/9CZYTwieUwJchM1UhHkWaVu 5A0g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=8DB0gXZSYWhoXCclDqoGwfItE/B8JqjWmSHBb+/1Yx4=; b=ntk0nGpTjBDFcbntUbxy8jLqQ2tCMNwxuPt+pQ6CO6XMkZkFaQMxLhiVu29yt3E6eY XKcW5aoTF3zMxfF1gXtZsgE5o4pSKGhrWPPUOoEp+4akyEn5S+dkANyWRTffBsrLR/Kk viIw/YvTDCqZSTnDpUpwgoBZa/vWgghzTiK1id2jN9aE0TCwiU66TG+wYsI4uIKiE9Ev tC9JRx9NZGXNY4fqqYK3mWgM0euVJ4aNf4RIs3zFws8k7wRj1HM+1kZDbRaRyYUBDULw n1y2hDcu3F73CzMF5tG+eRAMfJLbSm/n0Ksz5HXJ+R1LN0DjNZ49Q3myltMIr7IrCbvb wf7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytcrFPmqUYN6pF4GNae9zDbsfzJo1WaXAg6qeehroBUp9iVU0Hfd pDC2ZaLy5NKlvzPnxzlxyWU5tSHFBbSk0MrBtA8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovwPXCbYj/Y4JiRu0g1X7bsJzZGYleYcv9NfyD5EG9GGherSiDa4CNxKDlv/1NeU/zRVZVw42UOihMu44MDrl0= X-Received: by 10.176.112.164 with SMTP id q4mr27139776ual.105.1516117813110; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 07:50:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.7.70 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 07:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.176.7.70 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 07:50:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Creative Care Services Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 10:50:12 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Proposal : Investigation of Unofficialness X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3703110871489718240==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============3703110871489718240== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0832e138b040e60562e6af92" --089e0832e138b040e60562e6af92 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am starting a thread for voting on each of these proposals individually. I will close the voting in order, other than the one to mark lojban.org as maintained by volunteers which is marked to close today. It is being extended through Thursday, 1/18/18 at midnight GMT because I was made aware that at least one member had not had the opportunity to read the discussion, much less vote, as of yesterday. .karis. On Jan 14, 2018 17:54, "Curtis Franks" wrote: > The purpose of this body is to just implement controls. It will be no mor= e > abusive than its members are inclined to be - and perhaps less than that > because of the additional protections which I included. If only Motion #5 > is passed, then a lot of the worries expressed here are nullified because > the organization will not be able to externally act except with respect t= o > *.lojban.org (they can look into other things, but can do nothing beyond > notifying the LLG about things which they perceive to be potential issues= ). > > Meanwhile, if Motion #4 or Motion #5 is passed, then I do not want the LL= G > to be stuck debating the particular details of those notifications - or > even overseeing their implementation - for the next long while. Even if t= he > community at lojban.org does all of the designing, we still may have to > revisit the issue until one of their design proposals is finally accepted > by us, possibly in each language or whatever other particular factors may > arise. We should definitely outsource this stuff. > > Delegating to one person is sure to cause upset, so we might as well > establish a body of several people who would be in charge of doing this > work. I attempted to provide an adequate structure for such purposes. > > If you can figure out an alternative which satisfies these and other > conditions, then I will be happy. > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Curtis Franks > wrote: > >> I rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I >> hereby proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next: >> " >> >> ****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ****** >> A motion and charter for a body: >> >> ___ >> >> >> *** Section 0 - Establishment and Purpose: >> >> Clause 0: >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2= =80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, >> constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the a= uthority of the LLG >> -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B (according to its discretion) oversee,=E2= =80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and >> (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and a= pplication >> of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whichever o= f >> the following items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (1) a= ny >> of aforementioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) any >> similar policy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: According to its discretion, this same body >> additionally shall search for both (1) potential violations of the same >> policies (as in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Sectio= n 0 >> Clause 0 Subclause C), and (2) any content whatsoever which should be so >> disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and n= ot >> necessarily pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject t= o >> the aforementioned policies of the LLG) and which has been identified to= be >> appropriate for such disclaimer. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless of any other provision of the LLG o= r this >> motion (excluding Section 1 Clause 7), the primary focus of this body sh= all >> be on: (1) official-seeming accounts, pages, or other entities which are >> not clearly personal and which are not endorsed by or under the direct >> control of the LLG; (2) teaching materials concerning topics related to = the >> LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content which may be confused for being officia= lly >> endorsed by the LLG, particular that which makes proposals or analysis >> concerning the structure or functionality of a language; (4) the curatio= n >> of LLG-associated or officially endorsed websites, publications, and >> content within its purview. Only with rare and carefully considered >> exception will this body concern itself with: (1) particular works in or >> usages of any language or version thereof, particularly if they are >> creative or primarily intended to be a non-instructive or >> position-nonassertive texts/content concerning the structure or >> functionality of a language; (2) obviously personal accounts or users wh= o >> do not claim official endorsement by the LLG for the content which they >> publish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause 7 >> shall be its primary legal, moral, operational, and intentional constrai= nts >> and shall have dominance over nearly all other concerns. >> >> Clause 1: The body described in Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be simpl= y >> known as "the Body", "this Body", or (as appropriate) "it"; (note the >> orthographic casing of the first two options). This motion, upon its >> passage and entry into force, shall act as the charter for this Body and >> shall be active policy of the LLG. >> >> Clause 2: This entire motion shall be inactive, vacuous, ineffective, >> and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 both= do not pass prior >> to this motion or during the same meeting of the LLG as that in which th= is >> motion was most recently proposed; (2) there is a failure to incorporate >> this Body according to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D. 2= 020 >> or within one full calendrical year of the passage of this motion by the >> LLG (whichever is later); or (3) a directive according to or in the >> pursuance of Section 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authorities therein >> described. >> >> ___ >> >> >> *** Section 1 - Operation and Constraints: >> >> Clause 0: This Body will autonomously regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-= =E2=80=8Bdesired >> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any = such notice, >> protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Clause 0 in the s= tead of the >> LLG directly=E2=80=8B. >> >> Clause 1: The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bde= cision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, >> =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG at least one per any twelve-month-long inte= rval or >> immediately upon the request of the LLG or upon its expiration or >> termination. It shall save and preserve all documentation of such, as a >> work of the Body, in perpetuity and in unmodified, properly maintained a= nd >> connected and organized, and complete form. The body shall proffer any >> documentation to an appropriate law enforcement or legal official upon >> their request. >> >> Clause 2: The Body will notify the pertinent websites and entities and >> other subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clause 0), according to its own >> discretion or according to the explicit and direct command by the LLG, a= s >> to its standards and policies once such are concretely established=E2=80= =8B. Such >> notification shall be only in a manner deemed suitable by the Body and >> (when appropriate) the LLG directly. >> >> Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain = total >> right of oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility >> for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or m= ethods or >> works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B= or its >> purview. >> >> Clause 4: All of this Body's authority shall be inferior to, derived >> from, and subsumed by that of the LLG or the law and shall be bounded by >> any policy or command of the LLG or the law. It shall, in good faith, >> endeavor to totally comply with and fulfill any such policy or command o= f >> LLG or the law. It shall also be subject to the following conditions: >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body sha= ll >> immediately cease to exist too. >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter becomes inoperable or is total= ly >> deleted or abolished, then this Body shall immediately cease to exist as= if >> naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Clause 2 appl= ies >> or is satisfied, then this charter is deemed to be totally inoperable. >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any time and for any purpose (or none), the= LLG or >> law may cause the utter and immediate termination of this Body or may ha= lt >> or direct any of its works, debates, or other processes. While under >> investigation by the law or officers thereof, this body shall continue a= nd >> operate such that it complies with the directives of the law or the >> aforementioned officer and reduces all other endeavors so as to maximize >> its ability to comply therewith - and all other provisions to the contra= ry, >> including those by or according to this charter, shall be ignored. >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 3: The LLG (within the restrictions and permissio= ns of the >> law) retains the sole right to edit or amend, add to, remove from, or >> delete or abolish this charter or any policy of the LLG which sustains t= his >> Body. >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 4: In all cases, the law or officers thereof shal= l be >> superior to the LLG. >> >> Clause 5: The Body shall not notify or attempt to in any way regulate or >> pressure any entity or content which is not subject to or the subject of >> such LLG policy - although it may search for and review such content. >> >> Clause 6: If and when this Body finds such content as that which is >> described in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does not have the author= ity >> to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, or if and when >> there is lack of implemented policy or mandate concerning some content, = it >> shall - according to its discretion - notify the LLG of the situation an= d >> its recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body shall= take no further >> action regarding or relating to such content unless explicitly authorize= d >> to do by the LLG. >> >> Clause 7: >> Main provision: Regardless of other provisions of the LLG, the actions >> of this Body shall be minimalistic, restrained, friendly and >> non-aggressive, and welcoming of experimentation with or in - as well as >> welcoming of any usage or promotion of - any version of any language whi= ch >> is endorsed or promoted by the LLG or which otherwise belongs to the >> purview or mandate of this Body or of the LLG (collectively described >> herein as "language(s)"). It shall actively encourage further innovation= , >> exploration, usage, promotion, and creative or technical or casual exerc= ise >> of such languages in all of its external interactions. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never shall attack, defame, insult, = or >> pressure (1) any users/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or the= ir >> associated communities) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any >> version of any language or other related work; it shall never act in a >> manner which stifles or discourages anyone from enjoying, exploring, usi= ng, >> or promoting any such language; it shall take especial care regarding >> interactions with prospective or potentially new users, authors, and >> community members, as well as people or entities with whom it has little >> prior interaction. In such cases, it shall at most request that the >> author(s): (1) sufficiently define new or experimental cmavo, gismu, raf= si, >> zi'evla, and cmene, as well as sufficiently define and indicate nonstand= ard >> definitions thereof (regardless of their newness or other nature) or of >> lujvo; (2) sufficiently identify and explain nonstandard grammatical >> structures which appear or are used within the content, or sufficiently >> describe the version(s) of the language which they are employing therein= . >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular policy, decision, work, action,= or other >> output by this body shall be explicitly and particularly reviewed agains= t >> the provisions of Section 0 and Section 1, particular Section 1 Clause 7= , >> and the standards thereof prior to its finalization and implementation. >> Such review shall be conducted by the Body as a whole or by its leadersh= ip. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt within the membership of t= he Body >> concerning a potential decision or course of action, its primary prefere= nce >> shall be inaction, acceptance, and community-building. >> >> >> Clause 8: >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first composition (as described in S= ection 2 >> Clause 2), this Body shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80= =8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears plus >> six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the completion of Section 1 Clause = 8 >> Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disauthorized, dissolved=E2= =80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B >> discontinued, and disincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifetime = is >> extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by exp= licit=E2=80=8B >> official action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natural expiration= of >> the Body. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80=8B = (as described in Section >> 1 Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, work(s), >> decisions, and other output shall return to=E2=80=8B and become the dire= ct >> responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body (in= cluding >> thereof) shall be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such things >> shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, standard= s, work(s), >> decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the resp= onsibility >> of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides other= wise or modifies or >> cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the establishment a= nd constitution of another >> (second) body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has o= r >> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the Body herein >> described (according to Section 0) - in which case, all aforementioned >> pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other output= =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be >> inherited by and devolved to this second body or organization unless >> otherwise specified by the LLG. >> >> Clause 9: >> Main provision: All questions or proposals of whether to notify an >> external entity or subject (as described in Section 0 or Section 1) must= be >> clearly and explicitly stated to the members of the Body in an organized >> and easy to find manner during an official meeting of the Body; no exter= nal >> or externally-oriented action or implementation resulting from or resolv= ing >> such questions or proposals, including any notification, may be conducte= d >> or undertaken in any portion or degree, until the elapse of four full >> calendrical days plus a unit of time (which is to be determined by the B= ody >> according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) after: (1) appropriate deba= te >> is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant decision is appropriately >> developed and agreed to by the members (possibly including the special >> determination of the aforementioned unit of time); and (3) explicit and >> particular certification of the result regarding its compliance with >> Section 1 Clause 7 according to the internal regulations of the body. Th= e >> following conditions and procedures shall further apply: >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforementioned un= it of >> time which is to be determined by the Body for the delay of an >> implementation or action based upon an externally-oriented decision shal= l >> in all cases be at least ten full calendrical days. If no special and >> explicit decision concerning the value of this unit is made during the >> accompanying more-general decision/resolution, or is made in accordance >> with or by internal regulations of and by the Body in advance, then its >> value shall be ten full calendrical days. >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Appropria= te and >> actionable agreement by the members will, in all cases, be constituted b= y >> the explicit concent of at least a strict majority of the attending memb= ers >> and in compliance with further internal regulations made by the Body in >> advance. >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential extern= al >> actions or externally-oriented decisions, the default position and resul= t >> of any proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed to by= a >> strict majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a total >> lack of any notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the >> external entity or subject) in anything related to the question of propo= sal >> in any manner whatsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If no >> clear, relevant, non-default-valued decision for a given question or >> proposal is appropriately made and agreed to, then such a default result >> shall be perfectly obeyed by the Body and all members thereof. >> =E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the following procedure is underw= ay and in >> effect, the aforementioned delay (defined in Main Provision of Section 1 >> Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall not elapse further= , >> instead becoming paused; upon the failure or completion of any attempt a= t >> the utilization of this procedure, such delay shall resume its elapsing >> from the state in which it was paused; completion or fulfillment of Step= 0 >> or Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay until both Step 0 and >> Step 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure shall follow the >> following steps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually exchangeable): >> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the Body ca= n, for any reason >> whatsoever (or none), formally request that the LLG review any >> non-default-valued resolution or decision of any such question or propos= al >> described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such request must= be >> submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion which the >> members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying time interval >> described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 >> Clause 9 Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or accepting s= uch >> petitions, then the member can instead make explicit (to the other membe= rs >> of the Body) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and is open to >> accepting such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a timely >> manner at the next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (or t= his >> Step is not satisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never invok= ed. >> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as de= scribed in Step 0 >> of this Procedure) is made by the member, they are also to explicitly an= d >> clearly notify the Body of the same and of their intended invocation of >> this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so withi= n >> the unit of time described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 a= nd >> in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0. >> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of this P= rocedure) are >> fulfilled (in either order), this Procedure takes effect and all relevan= t >> actions of the Body are to halt immediately and the decision described i= n >> the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 which is relevant to the >> invocation of this Procedure shall not be acted upon or implemented or >> output in any matter whatsoever until the LLG makes a decision concernin= g >> it and all related discussions. If either Step 0 or Step 1 is not satisf= ied >> within the delay interval described in the Main Provision of Section 1 >> Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this Procedure will >> not be considered to be underway or in effect, and the Body can proceed = as >> it was and the aforementioned time delay shall continue elapsing (having >> never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied within the >> time delay interval aforementioned, then the elapse of said delay will >> immediately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply and be obeyed even= if >> its applicability is not recognized by the leadership of the Body in a >> sufficiently timely manner. >> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 3: Once such decision (as referenced in S= tep 2 of this >> Procedure) is made by the LLG, this Procedure is completed and this Body >> shall immediately and fully act accordingly and in good faith with the >> decision of the LLG (regardless of their original decision concerning th= e >> question or proposal). If the relevant issue is never resolved by the LL= G >> during the meeting during which they are notified of the usage of this >> procedure, then the default position on the question or proposal shall >> fully apply and this Body cannot again entertain or take up such or rela= ted >> question or proposal (or other implementation thereof), unless the new >> proposal be to cease some relevant action and comply with Section 1 Clau= se >> 7, until the LLG so decides; while this lattermost condition applies, th= is >> Procedure shall be considered to be ongoing and in effect. >> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of being censored, as r= eferenced in this >> provision, refers to the provisions of Section 1 Clause 10; the default = (or >> default state or default position) herein referenced is that which is >> described in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 2. >> >> Clause 10: The Body shall have the power to censor its own members in a >> formal manner. The Body shall, in advance, decide regulations concerning >> the censorship of any of their members via unanimous and explicit decisi= on >> after appropriate notice to all members. Any decision to actually implem= ent >> the censoring of any member must be made by unanimous decision of all >> members, excepting the subject of the proposed censorship, and only upon >> appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any case, no state of censorship sh= all >> endure for more than one-hundred forty-four full calendrical days. >> Constraints on participation or decision making within the Body which ar= e >> to result from censorship shall only be those which accord with and resu= lt >> from the policy of the LLG (including this charter) and the explicit, pr= ior >> internal regulations of the Body. >> >> Clause 11: The Body shall immediately, during its first meeting after >> incorporation according to Section 3, undertake to establish internal ru= les >> and regulations which satisfy and enable the provisions of this section = (id >> est: Section 1). >> >> ___ >> >> >> *** Section 2 - Composition: >> >> Clause 0 - Membership: >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Body shall consist of an odd number of mem= bers, >> numbering at least five, who shall be members of the community or people >> acceptable to the Body and the LLG and who accept their membership to th= e >> Body. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the = Body shall be =E2=80=8Bselected >> in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shal= l be >> determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (later) selections and (= internal) >> regulations of its membership shall be under the primary, autonomous, an= d >> direct authority and review of the Body itself, subject to the following >> conditions: >> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: Any regular/normal selection of n= ew membership >> shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years plus = six >> calendrical months after both the original establishment of this Body an= d >> the incorporation of this Body according to Section 3. >> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any change to such selection or r= egulation shall >> become effective only upon due notice to all members and the elapse of >> fourteen full calendrical days after its passage, excepting the case of = an >> emergency as determined by an at-least-two-thirds supermajority of the >> attending members. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All membership applications to the Body and no= tice for >> such application shall be entirely public. >> =E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility requirements for membership to= the Body >> shall be entirely subject to review and change by the LLG and must be >> explicitly established, with the explicit permission of the LLG, prior t= o >> the selection of any new membership of the Body. This and other basic >> internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the >> Body during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. >> >> Clause 1 - Organization: The Body shall govern and organize itself - and >> design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, etc. = - >> =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such does not conflict with the decisio= ns of the >> LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. Such basic= internal >> regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the Body dur= ing >> its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. >> >> Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This Body shall be >> first composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January= or >> 1 June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, >> twenty-four-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described in >> Section 3). It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a time = and >> manner according to the wishes of all of its members. Its first business >> shall be to determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursuant = to >> each provision of this charter. >> >> ___ >> >> >> *** Section 3 - Incorporation: >> >> Clause 0: This body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the >> completion and simultaneous fulfillment of each of the following conditi= ons: >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: The first membership of this Body having been = properly >> selected, satisfying Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to people who have >> capacity and willingness to maintain and realize active membership in th= e >> Body. >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is determined by = the LLG >> in an official act thereof. >> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisfaction of a= ll other >> conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of an explicit >> declaration and granting of incorporation of and to the Body by the LLG >> occurs. >> >> ", >> >> where: >> =E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and Motion 5 shall be understood to= refer to >> the same motions as those so labelled in this current email chain or any >> modification, successor, continuance, or replacement of the same. >> >> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Services < >> comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> In addition to the two other proposals regarding unofficial content, >>> included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out that= he >>> had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are considerin= g >>> here is listed below as number six. >>> >>> This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it. >>> >>> .karis. >>> >>> >>>> *Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences* >>>> >>>> *Motion 4: "*The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG or >>>> some body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and moni= tor >>>> social media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, >>>> communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any way >>>> whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted logi= cal >>>> languages and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, or >>>> unofficial - and that such a body shall request such entities to >>>> prominently display a disclaimer stating that they are unofficial and = not >>>> endorsed by the LLG.*"* >>>> * * I noted the following caveat with the original discussion which >>>> became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enforce such requests, j= ust >>>> make them. But having an official policy about addressing them may be = good >>>> and gives us some moral 'standing')"* >>>> * * Moved by me, seconded by gleki.* >>>> >>>> *___* >>>> >>>> *Unofficialness Disclaimer* >>>> >>>> *Motion 5: "*All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >>>> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >>>> managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not >>>> necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not >>>> reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of t= he >>>> same.*"* >>>> ** Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.* >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> **** Here it is! **** >>> >>> >>> *Motion 6: "*There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished= =E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B >>>> and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG = -=E2=80=8B which >>>> will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as pos= sible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official >>>> implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with and >>>> pursuant to the content of the aforementioned motion proposals *(id >>>> est: Motion 4 or Motion 5)*, provided the passage of at least one >>>> thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which = shall search for >>>> either potential violations of the same or appropriate content which s= hould >>>> be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandat= e, >>>> and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to = the >>>> aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but do= es >>>> not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said >>>> content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendati= ons >>>> pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, v= acuous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B >>>> ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals *(Motion 4, Motion 5)* = both >>>> do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be i= nferior to and >>>> subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of the= LLG >>>> and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content w= hich >>>> is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may s= earch >>>> for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially= =E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired >>>> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof an= y such notice, >>>> protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2= =80=8B. The body shall >>>> consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The body >>>> shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and >>>> will notify the pertinent websites and entities and other subjects, >>>> according to its own discretion or explicit and direct command by the = LLG, >>>> as to its standards and policies once such are concretely established= =E2=80=8B. >>>> Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total ri= ght of >>>> oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility for, th= e >>>> body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods = or works, as >>>> well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its = purview; the >>>> body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own >>>> internal rules, its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such = does not >>>> conflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the content= s of this >>>> motion=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B the first 1 >>>> January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after wh= ich >>>> point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendr= ical =E2=80=8Byears and six >>>> =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8B= be dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and >>>> discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B= and such >>>> expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official a= ction of the >>>> LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2= =80=8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, >>>> standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B= and become >>>> the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and re= main active >>>> and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and= other output=E2=80=8B (as >>>> appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until th= e LLG=E2=80=8B >>>> explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the es= tablishment and constitution >>>> of another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which h= as or >>>> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein >>>> described (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy= , standards, >>>> work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited= by and devolved to >>>> it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80= =8Bmembership of the >>>> body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bselected i= n a manner which the LLG >>>> decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be determined later=E2= =80=8B by the LLG; >>>> thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membership shall= be >>>> under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although an= y >>>> regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elaps= e of >>>> fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the origi= nal >>>> establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membersh= ip; all >>>> membership applications and notice for such application shall be publi= c; >>>> eligibility requirements for membership to the body shall be subject t= o >>>> review and change by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with >>>> explicit permission of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new >>>> membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constitut= ed shall be >>>> determined by the LLG during or prior to, and as part of, the selectio= n of >>>> its first membership.*=E2=80=8B"* >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --089e0832e138b040e60562e6af92 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am starting a thread for voting on each of these propos= als individually. I will close the voting in order, other than the one to m= ark lojban.org as maintained by volunteer= s which is marked to close today. It is being extended through Thursday, 1/= 18/18 at midnight GMT because I was made aware that at least one member had= not had the opportunity to read the discussion, much less vote, as of yest= erday.

.karis.=C2=A0

On Jan 14, 2018= 17:54, "Curtis Franks" <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:
The purpose of this= body is to just implement controls. It will be no more abusive than its me= mbers are inclined to be - and perhaps less than that because of the additi= onal protections which I included. If only Motion #5 is passed, then a lot = of the worries expressed here are nullified because the organization will n= ot be able to externally act except with respect to=C2=A0*.lojban.org=C2=A0 (they can look into other things, but c= an do nothing beyond notifying the LLG about things which they perceive to = be potential issues).

Meanwhile, if Motion #4 or Motion #5 is passed= , then I do not want the LLG to be stuck debating the particular details of= those notifications - or even overseeing their implementation - for the ne= xt long while. Even if the community at lojban.org does all of the designing, we still may have to= revisit the issue until one of their design proposals is finally accepted = by us, possibly in each language or whatever other particular factors may a= rise. We should definitely outsource this stuff.

= Delegating to one person is sure to cause upset, so= we might as well establish a body of several people who would be in charge= of doing this work. I attempted to provide an adequate structure for such = purposes.

If you can figure out an alternative which satisfies these and oth= er conditions, then I will be happy.

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Curti= s Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:
I rescind m= y proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I hereby pro= ffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next:
=C2=A0"

****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ******
A motion and charter for a= body:

___

<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">
*** Section 0 - Establishment= and Purpose:

Clause 0:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause = A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B= , constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the au= thority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B (according to its discret= ion) oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce= =E2=80=8B the official implementation and application of LLG policy consist= ent with and pursuant to the content of whichever of the following items ha= ve been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (1) any of aforementioned moti= on proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) any similar policy of the LL= G which has been explicitly delegated to it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Sub= clause B: According to its discretion, this same body additionally shall se= arch for both (1) potential violations of the same policies (as in Section = 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause C), = and (2) any content whatsoever which should be so disclaimed (regardless of= any implemented policy or other mandate, and not necessarily pertaining to= only websites or entities or content subject to the aforementioned policie= s of the LLG) and which has been identified to be appropriate for such disc= laimer.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless of any other pro= vision of the LLG or this motion (excluding Section 1 Clause 7), the primar= y focus of this body shall be on: (1) official-seeming accounts, pages, or = other entities which are not clearly personal and which are not endorsed by= or under the direct control of the LLG; (2) teaching materials concerning = topics related to the LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content which may be confuse= d for being officially endorsed by the LLG, particular that which makes pro= posals or analysis concerning the structure or functionality of a language;= (4) the curation of LLG-associated or officially endorsed websites, public= ations, and content within its purview. Only with rare and carefully consid= ered exception will this body concern itself with: (1) particular works in = or usages of any language or version thereof, particularly if they are crea= tive or primarily intended to be a non-instructive or position-nonassertive= texts/content concerning the structure or functionality of a language; (2)= obviously personal accounts or users who do not claim official endorsement= by the LLG for the content which they publish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section= 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause 7 shall be its primary legal, moral, oper= ational, and intentional constraints and shall have dominance over nearly a= ll other concerns.

Clause 1: The body described in Section 0 C= lause 0 shall herein be simply known as "the Body", "this Bo= dy", or (as appropriate) "it"; (note the orthographic casing= of the first two options). This motion, upon its passage and entry into fo= rce, shall act as the charter for this Body and shall be active policy of t= he LLG.

Clause 2: This entire motion shall be inactive, vacuou= s, ineffective, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and = Motion 5 both do not pass prior to this motion or during the same meeting o= f the LLG as that in which this motion was most recently proposed; (2) ther= e is a failure to incorporate this Body according to Section 3 by 12:00 (no= on) UTC of 1 January A.D. 2020 or within one full calendrical year of the p= assage of this motion by the LLG (whichever is later); or (3) a directive a= ccording to or in the pursuance of Section 1 Clause 4 is issued with the au= thorities therein described.

___


*** Sec= tion 1 - Operation and Constraints:

Clause 0: This Body will a= utonomously regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired design, imple= mentation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any such notice, pro= tocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Clause 0 in the stead o= f the LLG directly=E2=80=8B.=C2=A0

Clause 1: The Body shall pu= blish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG at least one per any t= welve-month-long interval or immediately upon the request of the LLG or upo= n its expiration or termination. It shall save and preserve all documentati= on of such, as a work of the Body, in perpetuity and in unmodified, properl= y maintained and connected and organized, and complete form. The body shall= proffer any documentation to an appropriate law enforcement or legal offic= ial upon their request.

<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">Clause 2: The Body will notify the per= tinent websites and entities and other subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clau= se 0), according to its own discretion or according to the explicit and dir= ect command by the LLG, as to its standards and policies once such are conc= retely established=E2=80=8B. Such notification shall be only in a manner de= emed suitable by the Body and (when appropriate) the LLG directly.

=
Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retai= n total right of oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibi= lity for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or= methods or works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose= =E2=80=8B or its purview.

Clause 4: All of this Body's aut= hority shall be inferior to, derived from, and subsumed by that of the LLG = or the law and shall be bounded by any policy or command of the LLG or the = law. It shall, in good faith, endeavor to totally comply with and fulfill a= ny such policy or command of LLG or the law. It shall also be subject to th= e following conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG = ceases to exist, then this Body shall immediately cease to exist too.
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter becomes inoperable or i= s totally deleted or abolished, then this Body shall immediately cease to e= xist as if naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Claus= e 2 applies or is satisfied, then this charter is deemed to be totally inop= erable.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any time and for any pur= pose (or none), the LLG or law may cause the utter and immediate terminatio= n of this Body or may halt or direct any of its works, debates, or other pr= ocesses. While under investigation by the law or officers thereof, this bod= y shall continue and operate such that it complies with the directives of t= he law or the aforementioned officer and reduces all other endeavors so as = to maximize its ability to comply therewith - and all other provisions to t= he contrary, including those by or according to this charter, shall be igno= red.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 3: The LLG (within the restrictio= ns and permissions of the law) retains the sole right to edit or amend, add= to, remove from, or delete or abolish this charter or any policy of the LL= G which sustains this Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 4: In all = cases, the law or officers thereof shall be superior to the LLG.

Clause 5: The Body shall not notify or attempt to in any way regulate or= pressure any entity or content which is not subject to or the subject of s= uch LLG policy - although it may search for and review such content.=
Clause 6: If and when this Body finds such content as that which is = described in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does not have the authority= to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, or if and when the= re is lack of implemented policy or mandate concerning some content, it sha= ll - according to its discretion - notify the LLG of the situation and its = recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body shall take n= o further action regarding or relating to such content unless explicitly au= thorized to do by the LLG.

Clause 7:
=C2=A0Main provision:= Regardless of other provisions of the LLG, the actions of this Body shall = be minimalistic, restrained, friendly and non-aggressive, and welcoming of = experimentation with or in - as well as welcoming of any usage or promotion= of - any version of any language which is endorsed or promoted by the LLG = or which otherwise belongs to the purview or mandate of this Body or of the= LLG (collectively described herein as "language(s)"). It shall a= ctively encourage further innovation, exploration, usage, promotion, and cr= eative or technical or casual exercise of such languages in all of its exte= rnal interactions.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never = shall attack, defame, insult, or pressure (1) any users/authors of or in th= e relevant language(s) (or their associated communities) nor (2) the partic= ular personal usage of any version of any language or other related work; i= t shall never act in a manner which stifles or discourages anyone from enjo= ying, exploring, using, or promoting any such language; it shall take espec= ial care regarding interactions with prospective or potentially new users, = authors, and community members, as well as people or entities with whom it = has little prior interaction. In such cases, it shall at most request that = the author(s): (1) sufficiently define new or experimental cmavo, gismu, ra= fsi, zi'evla, and cmene, as well as sufficiently define and indicate no= nstandard definitions thereof (regardless of their newness or other nature)= or of lujvo; (2) sufficiently identify and explain nonstandard grammatical= structures which appear or are used within the content, or sufficiently de= scribe the version(s) of the language which they are employing therein.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular policy, decision, work,= action, or other output by this body shall be explicitly and particularly = reviewed against the provisions of Section 0 and Section 1, particular Sect= ion 1 Clause 7, and the standards thereof prior to its finalization and imp= lementation. Such review shall be conducted by the Body as a whole or by it= s leadership.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt w= ithin the membership of the Body concerning a potential decision or course = of action, its primary preference shall be inaction, acceptance, and commun= ity-building.


<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">Clause 8:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 S= ubclause A: After its first composition (as described in Section 2 Clause 2= ), this Body shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendri= cal =E2=80=8Byears plus six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the completion of Section 1 Cla= use 8 Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disauthorized, dissolved= =E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B discontinued, and disincorporated in it= s entirety - unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration i= s delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official action of the LLG.= This shall constitute the natural expiration of the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80=8B (as= described in Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, work(s), decisions, and = other output shall return to=E2=80=8B and become the direct responsibility = of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body (including thereof) s= hall be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such things shall persis= t and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, standards, work(s), dec= isions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibi= lity of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides oth= erwise or modifies or cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon = the establishment and constitution of another (second) body or organization= under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purview which nonem= ptily intersects that of the Body herein described (according to Section 0)= - in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, = work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by a= nd devolved to this second body or organization unless otherwise specified = by the LLG.

Clause 9:
=C2=A0Main provision: All questions = or proposals of whether to notify an external entity or subject (as describ= ed in Section 0 or Section 1) must be clearly and explicitly stated to the = members of the Body in an organized and easy to find manner during an offic= ial meeting of the Body; no external or externally-oriented action or imple= mentation resulting from or resolving such questions or proposals, includin= g any notification, may be conducted or undertaken in any portion or degree= , until the elapse of four full calendrical days plus a unit of time (which= is to be determined by the Body according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition = 0) after: (1) appropriate debate is held and concluded; (2) a clear, releva= nt decision is appropriately developed and agreed to by the members (possib= ly including the special determination of the aforementioned unit of time);= and (3) explicit and particular certification of the result regarding its = compliance with Section 1 Clause 7 according to the internal regulations of= the body. The following conditions and procedures shall further apply:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforement= ioned unit of time which is to be determined by the Body for the delay of a= n implementation or action based upon an externally-oriented decision shall= in all cases be at least ten full calendrical days. If no special and expl= icit decision concerning the value of this unit is made during the accompan= ying more-general decision/resolution, or is made in accordance with or by = internal regulations of and by the Body in advance, then its value shall be= ten full calendrical days.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1 - Minima= l Requirements for Decisions: Appropriate and actionable agreement by the m= embers will, in all cases, be constituted by the explicit concent of at lea= st a strict majority of the attending members and in compliance with furthe= r internal regulations made by the Body in advance.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential external action= s or externally-oriented decisions, the default position and result of any = proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed to by a strict = majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a total lack of an= y notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the external entity o= r subject) in anything related to the question of proposal in any manner wh= atsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If no clear, relevant, non= -default-valued decision for a given question or proposal is appropriately = made and agreed to, then such a default result shall be perfectly obeyed by= the Body and all members thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 -= Veto: While the following procedure is underway and in effect, the aforeme= ntioned delay (defined in Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Secti= on 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall not elapse further, instead becoming pause= d; upon the failure or completion of any attempt at the utilization of this= procedure, such delay shall resume its elapsing from the state in which it= was paused; completion or fulfillment of Step 0 or Step 1 shall not pause = the elapse of said delay until both Step 0 and Step 1 are completed and ful= filled. This procedure shall follow the following steps (where Step 0 and S= tep 1 are mutually exchangeable):
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2= =E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the Body can, for any reason w= hatsoever (or none), formally request that the LLG review any non-default-v= alued resolution or decision of any such question or proposal described in = the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such request must be submitted to= the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion which the members of the LLG= can understand, within the delaying time interval described in the Main Pr= ovision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0. If the= LLG is not currently meeting or accepting such petitions, then the member = can instead make explicit (to the other members of the Body) their intentio= ns to do so once the LLG meets and is open to accepting such petitions; the= y must fulfill this intention in a timely manner at the next opportunity to= do so, else this Procedure fails (or this Step is not satisfied) and the B= ody may proceed as if it was never invoked.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as described in= Step 0 of this Procedure) is made by the member, they are also to explicit= ly and clearly notify the Body of the same and of their intended invocation= of this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so with= in the unit of time described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 a= nd in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80= =A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of this Procedure) are fu= lfilled (in either order), this Procedure takes effect and all relevant act= ions of the Body are to halt immediately and the decision described in the = Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 which is relevant to the invocation of= this Procedure shall not be acted upon or implemented or output in any mat= ter whatsoever until the LLG makes a decision concerning it and all related= discussions. If either Step 0 or Step 1 is not satisfied within the delay = interval described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Secti= on 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this Procedure will not be considered to be= underway or in effect, and the Body can proceed as it was and the aforemen= tioned time delay shall continue elapsing (having never been paused); if St= ep 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied within the time delay interval aforemen= tioned, then the elapse of said delay will immediately halt and be paused. = This Step shall apply and be obeyed even if its applicability is not recogn= ized by the leadership of the Body in a sufficiently timely manner.<= /div>
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 3: Once such decision (as r= eferenced in Step 2 of this Procedure) is made by the LLG, this Procedure i= s completed and this Body shall immediately and fully act accordingly and i= n good faith with the decision of the LLG (regardless of their original dec= ision concerning the question or proposal). If the relevant issue is never = resolved by the LLG during the meeting during which they are notified of th= e usage of this procedure, then the default position on the question or pro= posal shall fully apply and this Body cannot again entertain or take up suc= h or related question or proposal (or other implementation thereof), unless= the new proposal be to cease some relevant action and comply with Section = 1 Clause 7, until the LLG so decides; while this lattermost condition appli= es, this Procedure shall be considered to be ongoing and in effect.<= /div>
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of being = censored, as referenced in this provision, refers to the provisions of Sect= ion 1 Clause 10; the default (or default state or default position) herein = referenced is that which is described in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 2.
Clause 10: The Body shall have the power to censor its own membe= rs in a formal manner. The Body shall, in advance, decide regulations conce= rning the censorship of any of their members via unanimous and explicit dec= ision after appropriate notice to all members. Any decision to actually imp= lement the censoring of any member must be made by unanimous decision of al= l members, excepting the subject of the proposed censorship, and only upon = appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any case, no state of censorship shall= endure for more than one-hundred forty-four full calendrical days. Constra= ints on participation or decision making within the Body which are to resul= t from censorship shall only be those which accord with and result from the= policy of the LLG (including this charter) and the explicit, prior interna= l regulations of the Body.

Clause 11: The Body shall immediate= ly, during its first meeting after incorporation according to Section 3, un= dertake to establish internal rules and regulations which satisfy and enabl= e the provisions of this section (id est: Section 1).

=
___
=

*** Section 2 - Composition:

Clause 0 - Memb= ership:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Body shall consist of a= n odd number of members, numbering at least five, who shall be members of t= he community or people acceptable to the Body and the LLG and who accept th= eir membership to the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2= =80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the Body shall be =E2=80=8Bselected in a= manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be de= termined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C:= Thereafter, all other (later) selections and (internal) regulations of its= membership shall be under the primary, autonomous, and direct authority an= d review of the Body itself, subject to the following conditions:
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: Any regular/normal = selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully tw= o calendrical years plus six calendrical months after both the original est= ablishment of this Body and the incorporation of this Body according to Sec= tion 3.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any = change to such selection or regulation shall become effective only upon due= notice to all members and the elapse of fourteen full calendrical days aft= er its passage, excepting the case of an emergency as determined by an at-l= east-two-thirds supermajority of the attending members.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All membership applications to the Body and notice f= or such application shall be entirely public.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Su= bclause E: All eligibility requirements for membership to the Body shall be= entirely subject to review and change by the LLG and must be explicitly es= tablished, with the explicit permission of the LLG, prior to the selection = of any new membership of the Body. This and other basic internal regulation= s shall be the first business to be determined by the Body during its first= official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default">Clause 1 = - Organization: The Body shall govern and organize itself - and design and = enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, etc. - =E2=80=8Baut= onomously insofar as such does not conflict with the decisions of the LLG= =E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. Such basic inter= nal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the Body du= ring its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2.

Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This Body shall be fi= rst composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January or 1= June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, twenty-fo= ur-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described in Section 3).= It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a time and manner acc= ording to the wishes of all of its members. Its first business shall be to = determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursuant to each provisi= on of this charter.

___


*** Section 3 - = Incorporation:

Clause 0: This body shall be incorporated upon = and only upon the completion and simultaneous fulfillment of each of the fo= llowing conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: The first membe= rship of this Body having been properly selected, satisfying Section 2 Clau= se 0 with regard to people who have capacity and willingness to maintain an= d realize active membership in the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Conditi= on 1: A general name for this Body is determined by the LLG in an official = act thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the pur= ported satisfaction of all other conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LL= G, event of an explicit declaration and granting of incorporation of and to= the Body by the LLG occurs.=C2=A0

=C2=A0",
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">
= where:
=C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and Motion 5 shall be = understood to refer to the same motions as those so labelled in this curren= t email chain or any modification, successor, continuance, or replacement o= f the same.

On Fri, Jan= 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote:
In addition to the two other proposals= regarding=C2=A0 unofficial content, included below because this one refers= to them, Curtis pointed out that he had made three rather than two on this= topic. The one we are considering here is listed below as number six.
=
This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to secon= d it.=C2=A0

.karis.=C2=A0

=

Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences

Motion 4: "The LLG shall adopt an o= fficial policy that the LLG or some body constituted by it for such purpose= shall search for and monitor social media or blog platforms, accounts, pag= es, profiles, groups, communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entit= ies") which in any way whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or= other LLG-adopted logical languages and which are not clearly human, perso= nal, non-promoting, or unofficial - and that such a body shall request such= entities to prominently display a disclaimer stating that they are unoffic= ial and not endorsed by the LLG."
=C2=A0* I noted= the following caveat with the original discussion which became a motion: &= quot;(I do not think that we can enforce such requests, just make them. But= having an official policy about addressing them may be good and gives us s= ome moral 'standing')"
=C2=A0* Moved by me, seconde= d by gleki.

___

Unofficialness Disclaimer

Motion 5: "All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a d= isclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and managed by volun= tary people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized wi= th the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly c= omply with, official specifications of the same."
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">* Move= d by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.
=


<= div>

Motion 6: "There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, co= nstituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the author= ity of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2= =80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementat= ion and application of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant=C2=A0to the = content of the aforementioned motion proposals=C2=A0(id est= : Motion 4 or Motion 5), provided the passage of at least o= ne thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which sh= all search for either potential violations of the same or appropriate conte= nt which should be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or o= ther mandate, and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content su= bject to the aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such conten= t but does not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to= said content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendat= ions pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, v= acuous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if the aforementioned motion = proposals=C2=A0(Motion 4, Motion 5)=C2=A0bo= th do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be= inferior to and subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such p= olicy of the LLG and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity = or content which is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, altho= ugh it may search for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate th= e officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2=80= =8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer= =E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B. The body shall consist= of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The body shall publi= sh all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and will notify the perti= nent websites and entities and other subjects, according to its own discret= ion or explicit and direct command by the LLG, as to its standards and poli= cies once such are concretely established=E2=80=8B. Whilst the body is cons= tituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control= over, but not necessarily responsibility for, the body and any of its oupu= t=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods or works, as well as any matt= er belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview; the body sha= ll govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own internal rules= , its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict w= ith the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motio= n=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= the first 1 January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, = after which point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8B= calendrical =E2=80=8Byears and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and= then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80= =8B and discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80= =8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B of= ficial action of the LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described = previously)=E2=80=8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy= , standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B an= d become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist an= d remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, dec= isions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibi= lity of the LLG=E2=80=8B until the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwis= e=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of = another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or sh= all have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein descri= bed (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards= , work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by= and devolved to it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfi= rst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bsh= all be =E2=80=8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be a= ppropriate, which shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG; thereafter= , all other selection and regulation of its membership shall be under the p= rimary authority and review of the body itself, although any regular select= ion of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two cale= ndrical years and six calendrical months after the original establishment o= f the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership; all membership a= pplications and notice for such application shall be public; eligibility=C2= =A0requirements for membership to the body shall be subject to review and c= hange by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with explicit permissi= on of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new membership of the body.=E2= =80=8B The name of the body herein constituted shall be determined by the L= LG during or prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membershi= p.=E2=80=8B"
=
_______________________________________________<= br> Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members




_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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