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[67.86.128.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q26sm1669784qtl.68.2018.01.19.16.23.40 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 19 Jan 2018 16:23:41 -0800 (PST) From: Riley Martinez-Lynch Message-Id: <415C970B-FE34-45F4-85EA-58923A0489E0@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 19:23:43 -0500 References: <4734149.Ac4Tda036i@caracal> To: llg-members@lojban.org In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.0 X-Spam_score_int: -9 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Motion proposal - Unofficialness Disclaimer X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3720939328644874919==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============3720939328644874919== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4EC1424B-C779-44C5-B354-43D297C104B4" --Apple-Mail=_4EC1424B-C779-44C5-B354-43D297C104B4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I vote no on this motion, which I understand to be numbered as 5. I=E2=80=99d like to add that I would like to work on distinguishing the = official publications of LLG from content which is not official, and = that I think that adding a disclaimer to web pages is not an adequate = solution. As guskant has pointed out, there are other channels that = someone who is not overly familiar with lojban or LLG might confuse with = official organs of LLG. I get the firm impression that there is a consensus to address this = issue, which is to say, while opinions vary about how grave the problem = is, I have yet to hear an argument that we should leave things exactly = as they are. I think that we can do better than formal resolutions that = originate in the course of a confusing email discussion, and if I am = wrong and we can=E2=80=99t, it=E2=80=99s possible to legislate later, = once we understand why it=E2=80=99s necessary to do it that way. =E2=80=94Riley > On Jan 17, 2018, at 4:52 PM, Adam Lopresto = wrote: >=20 > I vote Nay. >=20 > On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 4:11 PM Creative Care Services = > wrote: > I now open this topic to a vote on the following proposal: >=20 > All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org = must contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned = and managed by voluntary >=20 > people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized = with the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone = perfectly comply with, official specifications of the same. >=20 > Voting will be closed no sooner than noon on January 16, 2018 GMT. >=20 > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:20 AM, Curtis Franks = > wrote: >=20 > On Jan 5, 2018 03:20, "Creative Care Services" > wrote: > Thank you, Pierre. >=20 > We now have a motion on the floor that has been made and seconded. I = ask that all discussion of this motion, and only such discussion take = place in this thread. As a point, since we have people in attendance who = are not officially members I am making it clear that anyone can make = comments, post ideas, respond to ideas and proposals, and ask questions. = We appreciate your interest.=20 >=20 > Discussion will be open until 12:00 noon GMT on January 9, 2018, or = until it appears to me that the discussion is no longer active before = then. Other discussions will continue in other threads. Because my = intent is to complete this meeting fairly soon without having to push = topics to the next meeting just because of time I would like to carry = out similar processes in parallel I ask for a ruling on the = appropriatness of such action.=20 >=20 > Thank you.=20 >=20 > .karis.=20 >=20 > On Jan 5, 2018 02:11, "Pierre Abbat" > wrote: > On Friday, January 5, 2018 1:46:41 AM EST Creative Care Services = wrote: > > Ok, with multiple seconds it is necessary to clarify which motion we = will > > be voting on and whether at least one second is specifically for = that > > motion. > > > > I therefore am restating what the first motion was : > > > > Curtis moved that, " I move that: All non-official pages or content = on *. > > lojban.org must contain a disclaimer stating, = at least, that the website is > > owned and managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents = are not > > necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may = not > > reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of = the > > same." > > > > Is there a second for this only? >=20 > I second this. >=20 > Pierre >=20 > -- > loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members = > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --Apple-Mail=_4EC1424B-C779-44C5-B354-43D297C104B4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I vote no on this motion, which I understand = to be numbered as 5.

I=E2=80=99d like to add that I would like to work on = distinguishing the official publications of LLG from content which is = not official, and that I think that adding a disclaimer to web pages is = not an adequate solution. As guskant has pointed out, there are other = channels that someone who is not overly familiar with lojban or LLG = might confuse with official organs of LLG.

I get the firm impression that there is = a consensus to address this issue, which is to say, while opinions vary = about how grave the problem is, I have yet to hear an argument that we = should leave things exactly as they are. I think that we can do better = than formal resolutions that originate in the course of a confusing = email discussion, and if I am wrong and we can=E2=80=99t, it=E2=80=99s = possible to legislate later, once we understand why it=E2=80=99s = necessary to do it that way.

=E2=80=94Riley

On Jan 17, 2018, at 4:52 PM, Adam Lopresto <adamlopresto@gmail.com> wrote:

I vote Nay.

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 = at 4:11 PM Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote:
I now open this topic to a vote on the following = proposal:

All = non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must = contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and = managed by voluntary

people, and = that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized with the = official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly = comply with, official specifications of the same.

Voting will = be closed no sooner than noon on January 16, 2018 = GMT.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:20 AM, Curtis Franks = <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan = 5, 2018 03:20, "Creative Care Services" <comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you, Pierre.

We now have a motion on = the floor that has been made and seconded. I ask that all discussion of = this motion, and only such discussion take place in this thread. As a = point, since we have people in attendance who are not officially members = I am making it clear that anyone can make comments, post ideas, respond = to ideas and proposals, and ask questions. We appreciate your = interest. 

Discussion will be open = until 12:00 noon GMT on January 9, 2018, or until it appears to me that = the discussion is no longer active before then. Other discussions will = continue in other threads. Because my intent is to complete this meeting = fairly soon without having to push topics to the next meeting just = because of time I would like to carry out similar processes in parallel = I ask for a ruling on the appropriatness of such action. 

Thank you. 

.karis. 

On Jan 5, 2018 = 02:11, "Pierre Abbat" <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 1:46:41 AM EST Creative Care = Services wrote:
> Ok, with multiple seconds it is necessary to clarify which motion = we will
> be voting on and whether at least one second is specifically for = that
> motion.
>
> I therefore am restating what the first motion was :
>
> Curtis moved that, " I move that: All non-official pages or content = on *.
> lojban.org must contain a disclaimer = stating, at least, that the website is
> owned and managed by voluntary people, and that the = marked contents are not
> necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may = not
> reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications = of the
> same."
>
> Is there a second for this only?

I second this.

Pierre

--
loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji


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