Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44988 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fD1dF-0003ad-As; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 22:45:49 -0700 Received: from mail-ot0-f176.google.com ([74.125.82.176]:39489) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fD1ch-0003Yf-KM for llg-members@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 22:45:18 -0700 Received: by mail-ot0-f176.google.com with SMTP id l12-v6so8302707oth.6 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 22:45:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qwPT5ZxcZVl6UvmmE7UVhEyVYihYOY3XcDAel0Xhq2U=; b=nvDlYhTa2z6cH1OcO+0yzjHAuwdNKOEBEwoCsVS6AMSDA2CflMGmYwXb469zUGvHz7 fsUrudeDhMLX0N6r7jYHQOcUywxOB7FRg4UsnFG5xQtlVel8uQRT4PZITlm+mhcs1BQI 2wt/RgGEs7BbZTUkcK+NcEY5FHziYVzncFLzoFxYHb7s2U+P1nKwLo5y26TSIi+lgP5j DWk0RWsCZfUc36zAn7FG8aVacrs5WKI3CSk/6EELT0UhOTKDRQUcIbre5Yqoof2VwZgL lGeJ2Q6fYC0LSh4e3flVCQc4nBdcA9nrvcUCuS2IzSMrHSqVZWa/s4jqB0H6oRWV1Vac Z9GQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=qwPT5ZxcZVl6UvmmE7UVhEyVYihYOY3XcDAel0Xhq2U=; b=WgCGpOphNH9OdXp4Qw5fyJ6pJIx6jwujjS1+a2s71dw1vUwncI7m5jMx7NljUdWxPV 8778RULGhPJ1jg74AC/4vizswEAPdneFuQqmSKWrSYoUIZPhBIc9hxlMouEeBJC8SV5I SUdhCd09ZpW123JfgRmbyFNP5GVtQqN31RDdEuaILWI0sZsHWVrwX26zXzBJILWSSncp p6vPBauTPBQ3PGZodVOEmTfYHG4mVIn1buA02DE6QT7Q8LescSWFEnx2Gmk4UIkme7pd fxGfwvqWN+BsGeQ28JEYwxKDirbwpFLsrZSwLAQ01iT7PjHp/+KM1iqGi2l/vkq+iWUi qVOg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tA0LiGRitwOJzy3L01M7VCjwqhn8BCPVsDj9dxG9YhTqGdqNnIh OKp9d8plPTvyNSBO7vZIiWco1VRYr/Oqe3z8eI2I X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZrDjXfh/w5FvmV/31Ussy3KmMUgNV/y5ctOzq0q3X/O03vWsOOaZxoq4XfEPCcrfHiA49uJx7FVvn2pcu1lXy8= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:32b:: with SMTP id 40-v6mr8002369otv.211.1525067108782; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 22:45:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.201.41.161 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 22:44:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 08:44:28 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] next meeting format X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1315089756704819938==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============1315089756704819938== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004717d1056b0a5b39" --0000000000004717d1056b0a5b39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Among self-hosted ones Mattermost supports threads (Mattermost can be installed e.g. via https://github.com/mozilla/mattermost-heroku/). Rocket.Chats do not support threads: https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat/issues/1112 Self-hosting software seems to me like an overkill. Also note that Slack retains not more than 10,000 messages in its free of charge plan. 2018-04-30 8:33 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > I prefer threads. > > ~~~ Curtis W. Franks > > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 01:25 Gleki Arxokuna > wrote: > >> >> >> 2018-04-30 4:43 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : >> >>> According to this ( https://feedback.discordapp. >>> com/forums/326712-discord-dream-land/suggestions/ >>> 15859336-threaded-text-chat ), which is not even a month old, it seems >>> to be impossible. I see multiple other requests for the same feature going >>> back several years, so it seems that either it is impossible or a decent >>> fraction of the prospective Discord community does not know how to do it >>> (of course, my search is going to bias my results). >>> >>> I should add that I did not read the entire page all the way - just a >>> few comments in order to make sure that no-one immediately told the >>> original poster that threading is indeed possible. If someone did so later >>> on, though, then I definitely missed it. >>> >> >> Neither does Gitter: https://gitter.im/gitterHQ/topics/topic/ >> 57f4e71fe581953f7e9b9833/integrating-topics-with-chat >> >> We then need to decide if we need threads that is whether we shall >> discuss several topics in parallel. >> If some of us do then we need to think of software that supports it. As I >> said Slack does. Maybe other (or other self hosted) software can do that, >> idk. >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> ~~~ Curtis >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Can anyone confirm if threads are possible in Discord? I can't find >>>> them. >>>> >>>> I can confirm threads are possible in Slack and absent in IRC and >>>> Telegram. >>>> >>>> 2018-04-19 8:00 GMT+03:00 Creative Care Services >>> >: >>>> >>>>> We didn't actually make any decision and the discussion just stopped, >>>>> as far as I can tell. My preference is Discord, mainly because of the >>>>> record formed for everything submitted in text, at least. I also don't know >>>>> about other forms. My familiarity with it is through Ingress and Delta T >>>>> (both phone-based AR games) chats and I like the structure of one server >>>>> containing, potentially, multiple conversation streams. The one thing I >>>>> miss is the ability to directly reply within a conversation. Individual >>>>> direct messaging is also easy. One very convenient feature is when you open >>>>> the application, at least on my phone, the total number of new messages >>>>> displays on the left pulsing menu. Open that and the number in the direct >>>>> messaging section, and for each channel displays, and this continues >>>>> through any more layers. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone have more to say on this matter before the Board Meeting? >>>>> I would like to use whichever method for that as a small scale test. >>>>> >>>>> .karis. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 13:32 Curtis Franks >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Did we ever decide on any details? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Creative Care Services < >>>>>> comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I absolutely want meetings to not happen at only a fixed time and >>>>>>> live as I stated during the 2016 meeting. We are in too many time zones and >>>>>>> have too many responsibilities to expect reasonable attendance at a meeting >>>>>>> scheduled that way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Further, as someone, I think Gleki, commented the recent meeting >>>>>>> went fairly well until during our just after Thanksgiving when my mother >>>>>>> became seriously ill. Assuming we use a chat format rather than emails >>>>>>> supplemented by Google docs/sheets or something similar I believe they will >>>>>>> be more efficient while allowing all interested to participate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My thought is for a main chat thread for all discussion with side >>>>>>> threads for stating and voting only on each proposal. Additional side >>>>>>> charts could be used for side discussions, possibly, but they would not be >>>>>>> official. These could include clarifications, and whatever else. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .karis. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 02:41 Gleki Arxokuna < >>>>>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2018-03-26 2:17 GMT+03:00 Creative Care Services < >>>>>>>> comcaresvcs@gmail.com>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My concern with Slack is our need for a full record despite the >>>>>>>>> number of posts. All the groups I'm in that use it hit that limit quite >>>>>>>>> quickly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for Discord, I know we can organize it to cover multiple topics >>>>>>>>> each in their own thread. The issue with it is threading takes significant >>>>>>>>> management as it isn't at all automatic. I have seen it done, though, and I >>>>>>>>> know who to ask for help. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I propose NOT to use threading in any way. That is one thread for >>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This way it will be quite easy to copy logs e.g. every day by just >>>>>>>> selecting text from the browser. >>>>>>>> Slack also has plugins that allow export with threads but I'm >>>>>>>> currently not sure how to save such threads into e.g. mw.lojban.org >>>>>>>> or any other sort of permanent "clay tablets". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If people want to discuss several topics at once they can do so >>>>>>>> sequentially, not in parallel. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *I also propose* either Google Docs or PiratePad >>>>>>>> for writing >>>>>>>> out proposals such as amendments to bylaws etc. Voting can be done by >>>>>>>> writing down your names in the pad. In the chat one can warn that e.g. >>>>>>>> he/she didn't vote but his/her name for some reason appeared in the >>>>>>>> piratepad. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I know other sites exist for managing discussion groups, but I >>>>>>>>> don't have familiarity with them. Does anyone else? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> .karis. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 15:28 Gleki Arxokuna < >>>>>>>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So I propose either Slack or Discord or IRC for the next meeting. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Telegram requires having a phone number, which some members might >>>>>>>>>> not have so this option should be avoided imo. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Slack Lojbanists already have an informal Lojbanic place. >>>>>>>>>> Everyone can create a new room there. Registering is possible via >>>>>>>>>> https://slaka.herokuapp.com Chat logs are preserved for a few >>>>>>>>>> days. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Discord Lojbanists have https://discord.gg/c8weYzf Chat logs >>>>>>>>>> are preserved. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Everyone here knows what is IRC. Chat logs are not preserved >>>>>>>>>> unless you use specific software. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>>> From: Creative Care Services >>>>>>>>>> Date: 2018-03-25 21:49 GMT+03:00 >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Tabulation of votes, motion to adjourn >>>>>>>>>> To: llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As I believe that is sufficient votes, I hereby declare the 2017 >>>>>>>>>> meeting of the LLG Membership adjourned. Further, less official discussion >>>>>>>>>> is welcome in this chat. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> .karis. >>>>>>>>>> President, Logical Language Group >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 12:18 LLG Secretary >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Per request of the president, here is a tabulation of votes on >>>>>>>>>>> the motion to adjourn. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aye (10): >>>>>>>>>>> Pierre >>>>>>>>>>> Lojbab >>>>>>>>>>> Curtis >>>>>>>>>>> Karis >>>>>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>>>>> Ilmen >>>>>>>>>>> Riley >>>>>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>>>>> Veion >>>>>>>>>>> Ali >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Abstain (1): >>>>>>>>>>> guskant >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> No (1): >>>>>>>>>>> selpa'i >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>>>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>>>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>>>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --0000000000004717d1056b0a5b39 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Among self-hosted ones
Mattermost supports = threads (Mattermost can be installed e.g. via https://github.com/mozilla/mattermost-heroku/<= /a>).

Self-hosting s= oftware seems to me like an overkill.

Also note th= at Slack retains not more than 10,000 messages in its free of charge plan.<= /div>


2018-04-30 8:33 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@= gmail.com>:
I prefer threads.

~~~ Cur= tis W. Franks

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 01:25 Gleki Arx= okuna <g= leki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2018-04-30 4:43 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
According to this (=C2=A0https://feedback.di= scordapp.com/forums/326712-discord-dream-land/suggestions/15= 859336-threaded-text-chat ), which is not even a month old, it seems to= be impossible. I see multiple other requests for the same feature going ba= ck several years, so it seems that either it is impossible or a decent frac= tion of the prospective Discord community does not know how to do it (of co= urse, my search is going to bias my results).

I should add that I di= d not read the entire page all the way - just a few comments in order to ma= ke sure that no-one immediately told the original poster that threading is = indeed possible. If someone did so later on, though, then I definitely miss= ed it.


We then need to = decide if we need threads that is whether we shall discuss several topics i= n parallel.
If some of us do then we need to think of software th= at supports it. As I said Slack does. Maybe other (or other self hosted) so= ftware can do that, idk.

=C2=A0


~~~ Cur= tis

On= Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Can anyone confirm if threads= are possible in Discord? I can't find them.

I can c= onfirm threads are possible in Slack and absent in IRC and Telegram.
<= /div>

2018-04-19 8:00 GMT+03:00 Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>:
We didn't actually m= ake any decision and the discussion just stopped, as far as I can tell. My = preference is Discord, mainly because of the record formed for everything s= ubmitted in text, at least. I also don't know about other forms. My fam= iliarity with it is through Ingress and Delta T (both phone-based AR games)= chats and I like the structure of one server containing, potentially, mult= iple conversation streams. The one thing I miss is the ability to directly = reply within a conversation. Individual direct messaging is also easy. One = very convenient feature is when you open the application, at least on my ph= one, the total number of new messages displays on the left pulsing menu. Op= en that and the number in the direct messaging section, and for each channe= l displays, and this continues through any more layers.
Does anyone have more to say on this matter befor= e the Board Meeting? I would like to use whichever method for that as a sma= ll scale test.=C2=A0

.ka= ris.=C2=A0

On Mon, = Apr 16, 2018, 13:32 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gma= il.com> wrote:
Did we ever decide on any details?

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Crea= tive Care Services <comcaresv= cs@gmail.com> wrote:
I absolutely want meetings to not happen at = only a fixed time and live as I stated during the 2016 meeting. We are in t= oo many time zones and have too many responsibilities to expect reasonable = attendance at a meeting scheduled that way.

Further, as someone, I think Gleki, commented the recent meet= ing went fairly well until during our just after Thanksgiving when my mothe= r became seriously ill. Assuming we use a chat format rather than emails su= pplemented by Google docs/sheets or something similar I believe they will b= e more efficient while allowing all interested to participate.

My thought is for a main chat thread= for all discussion with side threads for stating and voting only on each p= roposal. Additional side charts could be used for side discussions, possibl= y, but they would not be official. These could include clarifications, and = whatever else.

.karis.= =C2=A0

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 02:41 Gleki Ar= xokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>= wrote:


2018= -03-26 2:17 GMT+03:00 Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>:
My concern with Slack is our need for a full record despite the numbe= r of posts. All the groups I'm in that use it hit that limit quite quic= kly.=C2=A0

As for Discord, I k= now we can organize it to cover multiple topics each in their own thread. T= he issue with it is threading takes significant management as it isn't = at all automatic. I have seen it done, though, and I know who to ask for he= lp.=C2=A0

I propose NOT t= o use threading in any way. That is one thread for everything.
This way it will be quite easy to copy logs e.g. every day by = just selecting text from the browser.
Slack also has plugins that= allow export with threads but I'm currently not sure how to save such = threads into e.g. mw.lojban.org or any othe= r sort of permanent "clay tablets".

If p= eople want to discuss several topics at once they can do so sequentially, n= ot in parallel.

I also propose either Googl= e Docs or Pirat= ePad=C2=A0for writing out proposals such as amendments to bylaws etc. V= oting can be done by writing down your names in the pad. In the chat one ca= n warn that e.g. he/she didn't vote but his/her name for some reason ap= peared in the piratepad.

=C2=A0

I know other sites exist for ma= naging discussion groups, but I don't have familiarity with them. Does = anyone else?=C2=A0

.kari= s.=C2=A0


On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 15:28 Gleki Arxokuna <<= a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer n= oreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.c= om> wrote:
So I propose either Slack or Discord or IRC for th= e next meeting.

Telegram requires having a phone n= umber, which some members might not have so this option should be avoided i= mo.

On Slack Lojbanists already have an informal Lojban= ic place. Everyone can create a new room there. Registering is possible via= https://slaka.her= okuapp.com Chat logs are preserved for a few days.

O= n Discord Lojbanists have=C2=A0https://discord.gg/c8weYzf Chat logs are preserved.<= /div>

Everyone here knows what is IRC. Chat logs are not= preserved unless you use specific software.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com><= /span>
Date: 2018-03-25 21:49 GMT+03:00
Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Ta= bulation of votes, motion to adjourn
To: llg-members@lojban.org


As I believe that is sufficient votes,=C2=A0 I hereby declare the= 2017 meeting of the LLG Membership adjourned. Further, less official discu= ssion is welcome in this chat.

.karis.=C2=A0
President, Logical Language Group

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 12:18 LLG Secretary <<= a href=3D"mailto:shunpiker@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferr= er noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">shunpiker@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
P= er request of the president, here is a tabulation of votes on the motion to= adjourn.

Aye (10):
Pierre
Lojbab
Curtis
Karis
Adam
Ilmen
Riley
Alex
Veion
Ali

Abstain (1):
guskant

No (1):
selpa'i


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-m= embers@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/ll= g-members

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojb= an.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojb= an.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http:= //mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http:= //mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojb= an.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojb= an.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/li= stinfo/llg-members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/li= stinfo/llg-members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/li= stinfo/llg-members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/li= stinfo/llg-members

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


--0000000000004717d1056b0a5b39-- --===============1315089756704819938== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============1315089756704819938==--