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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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Subject: [llg-members] Re: Supplicatory Model: papri
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On 7/25/05, And Rosta <a.rosta@v21.me.uk> wrote:
...
> > and if you click on "previous page" a few times, you 
> > get to the first page.
>
> Well yes of course, given that English calls webpages 'pages', this is
> what you'd expect, but it's a bit illogical to adduce this in a discussion
> of how apposite the metaphor is.

As logical or illogical as bringing up the PageUp and 
PageDown keys in support of the page as screen metaphor.
 
>  Of course, if this has become an international calque, then
> it is legitimate to ask whether Lojban should use the same calque, & I'd
> be sympathetic to such an argument. 

It is used in the Romance languages (and in Esperanto), but
I wouldn't know if non-Romance languages use it.

>But on purely semantic grounds, cukta
> seems preferable to papri, for reasons given in earlier messages.

I think {cukta} is ovecrowded, conflating two clearly
different relationships: author-work-(audience) on the
one hand, and container-content-(medium) on the other.
It makes little sense to me to have a word that relates 
the container of the work with the author of the work. 
It's a good thing Lojban only has five vowels or it might
have included places for the publisher of the book, the 
copyright holder, the library it belongs to, and who knows 
what else.

Some differences I see between a cukta and a webpage:
- A webpage can be blank. A cukta requires a se cukta. 
- A webpage can be written on and modified, it can evolve
(for example a wiki page). A book (as in literary work) is 
not a book until it is finished, and once it is finished, it 
doesn't change. "Writing on a wiki page" is much more
like "writing on a page" (i.e. adding something to it) 
than like "writing a book" (i.e. creating it).
-A webpage can contain a form where you are asked to
fill in your personal info. I would hardly call a paper booklet 
with blanks for the insertion of information a cukta, but
I wouldn't mind calling it a selpapri.  

But my argument is not really about how good or bad {cukta} 
is for "webpage". All I'm saying is that {papri} provides a good
metaphor for it, and it being the natural first choice, there
is no need to go looking for something else.  

mu'o mi'e xorxes