From cowan@ccil.org Wed Dec 28 23:36:44 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-members); Wed, 28 Dec 2005 23:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.ccil.org ([192.190.237.100]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_ARCFOUR_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1ErsKz-00085O-P3 for llg-members@lojban.org; Wed, 28 Dec 2005 23:36:42 -0800 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1ErsKx-0006rE-7X for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 29 Dec 2005 02:36:35 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 02:36:35 -0500 To: llg-members@lojban.org Subject: [llg-members] Re: [archivists] batke Message-ID: <20051229073635.GB1889@ccil.org> References: <20050214192717.GP8200@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <421125F9.1000906@lojban.org> <20051229072557.GT5289@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051229072557.GT5289@chain.digitalkingdom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i From: John Cowan X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 151 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: cowan@ccil.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-members@lojban.org X-list: llg-members llg-members-bounce@lojban.org scripsit: > On Mon, Feb 14, 2005 at 05:28:09PM -0500, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > > > > Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > >batke seems amazingly under-specified. Is it "button" as in "don't > > >push the big red button" or button as in clothing or anything you > > >prod to cause an action (i.e. including GUI buttons) or what? > > > > It is defined by form rather than by function. > > How can you say that when there's a place for its function?? The idea is that a clothing button is the prototypical batke, and anything that has the same form ("defined by form") is a batke too. So a big red button is a batke, but the computer version is a more marginal case. There is a place for the function so that we can specify what a batke does, and make tanru/lujvo for various differently-functioning batke. > > *1 a* *:* a small knob or disk secured to an article (as of clothing) > > and used as a fastener by passing it through a buttonhole > > or loop *b* *:* a usually > > circular metal or plastic badge bearing a stamped design or printed > > slogan > > *2* *:* something that resembles a button: as *a* *:* any of various > > parts or growths of a plant or of an animal: as (1) *:* an immature > > whole mushroom (2) *:* the terminal segment of a rattlesnake's rattle > > *b* *:* a small globule of metal remaining after fusion (as in assaying) > > *c* *:* a guard on the tip of a fencing foil This is precisely a definition by form: a clothing button or anything with the same form, whatever its function may be. > Note that that doesn't include the other use of botton I gave. Indeed. -- A: "Spiro conjectures Ex-Lax." John Cowan Q: "What does Pat Nixon frost her cakes with?" cowan@ccil.org --"Jeopardy" for generative semanticists http://www.ccil.org/~cowan