From matt.mattarn@gmail.com Mon Aug 07 11:20:23 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-members); Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.229]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GA9i7-0006xU-Nv for llg-members@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:20:21 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id r21so605071wxc for ; Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:20:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=lGvtu8wXsr30eXqdzvu70FWB4VNy+YOvIRBw1rH0ImBQextH8j16HcgUkfjxnqI73VO8QZd6lJMZ/r4hR1hoBP3eySkeEwaLb4AlVldGlKX/ytK8Evqf4Pl1dpaWSYZVkbzSsxoLn6Qc68rCzM841E0EhAnMzSBcqbNtOs/STjQ= Received: by 10.78.177.3 with SMTP id z3mr2485527hue; Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.159.4 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:20:17 -0400 From: "Matt Arnold" To: llg-members@lojban.org Subject: [llg-members] Re: LLG 2006 Annual Meeting Thread In-Reply-To: <44D77A08.9080800@kli.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060707224943.GB18983@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20060807041126.GE28190@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <44D6D0E3.30801@lojban.org> <44D77A08.9080800@kli.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-archive-position: 238 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-members@lojban.org X-list: llg-members On 8/7/06, Mark E. Shoulson wrote: > I hope to be able to attend if something materializes. The previous > LogFest-cum-Philcon, for all its short notice, was an excellent > experience. Lawrence Schoen lives in the Philadelphia area and is a > Science-Fiction writer, so it is a safe bet that he will at least be at > Philcon even if we don't arrange things in advance. I think, though, > that Klingon/Lojban joint programming, while possibly a good idea and > worth persuing, will not be remarkably enlightening for those already > interested in Lojban (or Klingon). It *will* make for some nice > headlines and might garner some interest as some sort of "battle" or > "debate" (people can't resist imagining a conflict between Klingon and > Lojban), and that can only help us, simply by raising our profile and > people's awareness of Lojban. > > My point is, really, that while we should definitely support and work > for such a joint program, we should realize that it's mainly for show > and we're not going to gain any real insights from it. Then again, what > insights could we have hoped to gain anyway? > > ~mark You're right. All this is very true. But show is very important. Lots of conlangers don't get into it for linguistic insight, they get into it for allure. This reminds me of a scene I read this weekend in Vernor Vinge's latest novel Rainbows End. (Bear with me, I have a point to this.) In the future, various story-world settings called "belief circles" are overlaid with graphics onto the real world, using augmented reality. They exist simultaneously, and which world you want to live in depends on which channel you tune your viewpoint to. Two of these belief circles decide to square off for promotional purposes, and let their realities bleed into each other for a simulated war. Although it's a stretch, I think you see where I am going with this. Imagine if I take this image: http://www.nemorathwald.com/lojban/lojban_flag_furled.jpg and tilt it; make an opposing one with the Klingon flag; and cross the flags. Then you print a poster of this to promote a game show where Lojbanists and Klingons compete in their ability to translate sentences into their respective languages. http://www.rampart-sar.com/sounds/dumdum.wav If that can't be done at Philcon, maybe we could arrange a videoconference to do this game show, record the video, and put it up on the web. -epkat