From rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Thu Oct 11 19:29:55 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-members); Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IgAHj-0001de-CV for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:29:55 -0700 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:29:55 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: llg-members@lojban.org Subject: [llg-members] Re: LLG AGM 2007: New Business Message-ID: <20071012022955.GG13890@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: llg-members@lojban.org References: <20070918181955.GW10667@nvg.org> <20071010000942.GZ10376@digitalkingdom.org> <20071011190654.GO13890@digitalkingdom.org> <470E9480.3000307@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <470E9480.3000307@lojban.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-11) X-archive-position: 388 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-members@lojban.org X-list: llg-members NB: The emotions expressed in this mail are exaggerated, but they won't be in another year or so. I'm looking out for my future self, here. On Thu, Oct 11, 2007 at 05:24:16PM -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > 2) It sets a precedent for going around the byfy, with the > decisions being made by majority vote of the membership rather > than consensus of the byfy. This not only weakens the potential > of the byfy, but tends to detract even further from the motivation > to get the job done. > > 3) It is the pressure to get that consensus agreement, and the > tradeoffs that people need to make to reach that point, that make > consensus building possible. By removing issues from the table by > membership fiat, consensus building becomes harder. In light of the fervor (which I note to be the work of a single person so far) that my proposal has generated, I feel the need to explain why I did it. I am not, and was not, speaking as BPFK anything. I am not, and was not, speaking as an LLG member, let alone board member. I am, and was, speaking as a member of the wider Lojban community, and a user of the language (and, in fact, the single most prolific user of the language *of all time*, although xorxes is close behind me). I totally understand, and agree, that my proposal is a slap in the face to the purpose of the BPFK. The problem is that the BPFK has been slapping the face of the community for over 3 years. We've been sitting here dealing with a forked language, and in the meantime the BPFK is utterly failing to actually get anything substantial done. Yes, BAI was nice, but what has the BPFK done for me lately? [speaking as a BPFK member: I know that I am personally to blame for that in my own way, but as one of the 4 or so BPFK members that has ever done any substantial BPFK work, I say that you don't get to blame me until you've blamed everybody else, thanks] My proposal was borne out of despair at the BPFK ever completing its job. A job, by the way, that was supposed to be completed in, what, 1995 or something? Long before the BPFK was formulated. I despair. I am tired of trying to deal with a forked language. If you wish me to despair less, you must show me that this situation will be resolved in the forseeable future. Telling me that I'm missing the point of the BPFK is no good: I already know, and I'm very nearly past caring. Telling me you will confront me with legalities is no good: it simply increases my despair, because if legalities will be used to slow the process of something that is already this slow, we will literally never finish. Show me another way. Show me something other than the future I see before me, which is another 5 years of trying to respect the baseline in front of newbies when my own writings use xorlo. Show it to me, because I do not see it. -Robin -- Lojban Reason #17: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/