From ted.reed@gmail.com Tue Oct 16 14:50:56 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-members); Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.186]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IhuJS-0000LW-Dz for llg-members@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:50:56 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 4so1489987nfv for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:50:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=2X+8FH3rf98HU59NzEJJM4oy1ruGLiBYotxGXHcBMd4=; b=rPr+eVQM/Df8NdKXBCygnKjj9qZPtV7ryriZRyKDsW4ivfeFUOosDEGyMFlok9DOk/AyCZ43HIsWegtLiuqXtcsDZvuUAF1fWiR8Ocz12WkF5o3+jZLGdYyB9l6aTyg8qvBxx2YG1gBLqq5nYx9Tpt9/GgoQrSuf9g190e3dyO4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=X+9Q492vSVaYBBCzFzt9T/UvHceUo9acoJwqaJwBjBYbh0J+eRg0ro2+B53d4pyPwYvt8sUTQcnsYK4WBpgQHGBUsHZmiLEwMoOZMwwmdyWYR1YV/rMZeHNel1RylcsNuSMVRaNSymetQVqlIj3EybVYU5U3ZK5vUHpLr62kPlU= Received: by 10.82.112.3 with SMTP id k3mr139068buc.1192571452102; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.150.15 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:50:51 -0700 From: "Theodore Reed" To: llg-members@lojban.org Subject: [llg-members] Re: LLG AGM 2007: New Business In-Reply-To: <20071016213807.GO5630@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070918181955.GW10667@nvg.org> <20071010000942.GZ10376@digitalkingdom.org> <20071011190654.GO13890@digitalkingdom.org> <20071013110233.GU1196@nvg.org> <20071016193843.GI5630@digitalkingdom.org> <20071016194330.GF28745@mercury.ccil.org> <20071016202338.GL5630@digitalkingdom.org> <20071016213405.GG28745@mercury.ccil.org> <20071016213807.GO5630@digitalkingdom.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 439 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ted.reed@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-members@lojban.org X-list: llg-members On 10/16/07, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 05:34:05PM -0400, John Cowan wrote: > > Robin Lee Powell scripsit: > > > > > The entire problem that I have is a huge number of people > > > teaching xorlo instead of the CLL, and saying not to use CLL > > > gadri, and me being the only one saying that that's wrong. I'm > > > sick of being the one person trying to maintain the CLL as > > > not-wrong; that was the whole reason I said anything. > > > > Hmm, let me clarify. Saying "Use xorlo" is good. Saying "Ignore > > CLL-conformant" is good. Saying "CLL text is no longer valid > > Lojban" is bad. I don't think anyone's doing that. > > 17:16 < gunspoja> can someone explain the usage of "veridical" in the definitions for le and lo > 17:16 < gunspoja> veridical meaning "coinciding with reality", apparently > 17:16 <@bancus> ignore those > 17:16 <@bancus> read up on xorlo > 17:17 < gunspoja> ignore them because they are wrong, or just confusing? > 17:17 <@bancus> they're not wrong yet > 17:17 < gunspoja> yet? :/ uanai > 17:17 <@bancus> but will be when the byfy gets around to completing its mission > > I don't know if that counts "CLL text is no longer valid Lojban", > but "ignore those" is pretty close. "Ignore those" is closer to "Ignore CLL". #lojban users are mostly xorlo at this point, and my standard advise has become to ignore the CLL definitions because they'd confuse people, especially because we're reasonably sure at this point that the current CLL definitions will be replaced with something, xorlo being the most likely candidate. The bigger problem, pe'i, beyond people stating what is or isn't right, is the contradiction in usage. People get pointed to LfB, then come to #lojban where everyone is using {lo} more than {le}, and get really confused. Being able to change LfB to use xorlo would fix this, but xorlo isn't official yet. It's a problem. mu'o mi'e bancus