From cowan@ccil.org Sat Aug 15 20:21:52 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-members); Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.ccil.org ([192.190.237.11]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1McWJY-0004FC-Gg for llg-members@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:21:52 -0700 Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1McWJW-0003w8-Qx for llg-members@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:21:46 -0400 Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:21:46 -0400 To: llg-members@lojban.org Subject: [llg-members] [cr@cosmicray.co.uk: [Fwd: Lojban Ideas]] Message-ID: <20090816032146.GC21886@mercury.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan X-archive-position: 722 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: cowan@ccil.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-members@lojban.org X-list: llg-members Based on the below message, I formally nominate the author for LLG membership. I have talked to him on IRC and believe he understands what is involved. ----- Forwarded message from CosmicRay ----- Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:11:07 +0100 From: CosmicRay To: cowan@ccil.org Subject: [Fwd: Lojban Ideas] Dear LLG Board, I hope you don't mind but while you are in session I thought I'd send you some ideas I've had to promote Lojban, widen the LLG's reach, and also add to the coffers of the LLG. 1. Conversational Lojban site with subscription access lessons and forum I was wondering, would it be good to put together a conversational Lojban website, with a set of lessons that are free for the initial stuff, and then paid access (but cheap!) for intermediate and higher levels, with proceeds going to the running of the site, the lesson authors, and the LLG? Or, the lessons could be completely free, but if a user pays a subscription they get assigned a tutor (an expert from the Lojban community who has agreed to participate and gets paid through the subscription model) with whom they can interact with via the website, and also get full access to the forum. The forum can be split in two: an open access part that anyone can sign up to and read/post in, and a subscription-based part for the more advanced students and where the tutors hang out. Perhaps the paid-access forums are still available to all, but are read-only for non-subscribers, so that Lojban isn't perceived to have some kind of secret levels to learning it. Benefits: * It'd make Lojban more accessible, encouraging take-up * Raises money for the LLG * Structured lessons with tutors ensures a thorough grounding * Ties in well with idea 3 below 2. Charter for regional websites/groups I'd like to set up lojban.org.uk as a UK-centric hub of Lojban activity, and was thinking how it would be good to have a charter issed by the LLG for it. The charter could be optional for any pro-Lojban site to adopt, and can include principles that cover the quality of site and content, freshness of the Lojban published on it as the language evolves, and agreement to donate a percentage of any operating profit to the LLG. In return for adopting the charter, a site gets an official LLG seal to display and show its affiliation status, and can call on LLG-certified experts on various matters (within a predefined service level agreement of sorts). I believe having a charter and encouraging localised groups to form and adopt it, both in location and native language, will be like franchising Lojban and giving it wider exposure than the one official plus random scattering of fan-looking sites there currently is can manage. It will also ensure that more Lojban domain names are snapped up and used well (without hitting LLG funds, quite the opposite), rather than taken over by cybersquatters or other people with bad deeds in mind. Benefits: * The LLG can ensure that 3rd party sites adhere to codes of quality and freshness in the Lojban they expound * Lojban gets much wider exposure and acceptance as an international language * Regional activities and events will be easier to organise and attend * Raises money for the LLG 3. Exams and qualifications Many people learn languages for many reasons, and sometimes the best mark for themselves and others is to measure how much they've achieved through exams and qualifications. Having official LLG-approved qualifications to head for can give students a tangible goal to achieve, and so that they can accurately tell when they've reached various levels of competence. I propose a project to design one or more levels of qualification with exams split into a few parts that can be conducted remotely such as: * Basic comprehension through timed multiple-choice exams, can be completely automated via web * Listening and written comprehension exams, with work submitted to a human examiner via web * Spoken exams, with a human examiner, via Skype Qualifications can be graded in much the same way as those for any other language, with the highest levels of candidate being awarded diplomas and lettering. Exams must be paid for by the student or an accredited body, adding credence and authority to the exam being sat, and adding to the LLG's funds. Benefits: * Lojban students have something clear to aim for, rather than aimlessly studying alone without a defined goal * Helps legitimise Lojban studies - perhaps one day not far off colleges and universities could teach it * Existing language institutions could use course materal and exams to promote Lojban * Lojban experts can be recognised by their certification and lettering * Lojban would even be promoted through people adding it to their resumés * Raises money for the LLG 4. Translation projects This one may be later down the line, based on the materials generated and funding raised from the previous ideas. It would be good to see more internationalisation through getting non-native-English speakers involved. The early steps could begin by paying for English-based Lojban materials to be translated into other languages, at least until there's enough inertia and community energy within those languages to carry it on. Benefits: * The heavily English-speaking Lojbanic community becomes more balanced * Lojban gains greater international exposure, credibility and acceptance * In the long term, this in turn raises money for the LLG 5. iPhone / Android / Symbian apps All the cool kids have apps on their mobile devices these days, but Lojbanic apps are currently sadly lacking. I'm sure that within the existing community there is the expertise to address this, and if not, the extra funding from the above ideas could perhaps pay for 3rd parties to develop them via services like iphoneappquotes.com The apps could be as simple as flash card learning tools, phrasebooks and dictionaries, or as complex as multiplayer games. Benefits: * Learning Lojban easier to integrate into daily life * Wider exposure to new audiences * New ways of learning can develop to suit different tastes * In the long term, this in turn raises money for the LLG 6. Podcasts The iTunes Store's podcast section is awash with language podcasts for all the major languages as well as some conlangs and lesser known varieties. Lojban should be among them! Even one of the existing books serialised into bite-size chunks and made into an audio broadcast would be excellent podcast fodder. Benefits: * Learning Lojban easier to integrate into daily life * Wider exposure to new audiences * In the long term, this in turn raises money for the LLG I have many more ideas, and as you can see with each of these there's a focus on bringing in some money, so that the LLG can expand into even more ways of raising its profile and getting Lojban "out there". I'd like to explore ideas 1, 2 and 5 with you, let me know what you think :-) Regards, kozmikreis. (Currently CosmicRay on the #lojban IRC channel) ----- End forwarded message ----- -- I now introduce Professor Smullyan, John Cowan who will prove to you that either cowan@ccil.org he doesn't exist or you don't exist, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan but you won't know which. --Melvin Fitting