From lojbab@lojban.org Thu Aug 27 11:42:12 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-members); Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net ([68.230.240.46]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MgjvC-0001re-II for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:42:12 -0700 Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by eastrmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20090827184200.NNVP11036.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:42:00 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([70.187.235.94]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id ZWhz1c00B22sj6m02WhzrS; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:42:00 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=6LwM0zjTcIgA:10 a=DU5XYtLpV7uUJUozul8A:9 a=PG62p33mNnn9k5wBXPMr0aBg7hMA:4 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4A96D3DA.5060607@lojban.org> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:43:38 -0400 From: Bob LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: llg-members@lojban.org Subject: [llg-members] Re: Motion: Lojban Certification Program References: <925d17560908261436r7364022dn735a98e5851cc7f9@mail.gmail.com> <200908270711.14068.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4A96BCF9.1020305@kli.org> In-Reply-To: <4A96BCF9.1020305@kli.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 765 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-members@lojban.org X-list: llg-members Mark E. Shoulson wrote: > In-person tests are necessary to guard against use of reference > materials, etc, Perhaps IRC administration of the test would partially guard against this - the response should be timed (liberally to allow for slow typists) to make it difficult to cheat. Perhaps the first level of testing would be low enough to allow for open-book testing. If someone can construct reasonably good Lojban sentences with proper grammar and correct delimiters, it is less important that they have enormous vocabulary. It is hard to cheat on cmavo vocabulary, even with an open-reference, if you do not have a basic understanding of the grammar. IMNSHO: The highest level of testing should require composing a couple of written texts on some subject, of a minimum of X sentences, Y words, and making use of grammatical constructs A, B, C, and D, all used correctly. There should also be a reading comprehension text of comparable difficulty (with the several comprehension questions in Lojban, but worded substantially differently from the source text), and requiring complete sentence responses. This is distinct from translation - the standard is whether the response is grammatical and communicates the required information. The highest level test could also have an oral comprehension component, in which the questions are in Lojban, and recorded, but the response is typed. This seems a lot easier than a spoken, face-to-face test protocol. lojbab