From matt.mattarn@gmail.com Thu Aug 27 12:28:47 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list llg-members); Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f219.google.com ([209.85.217.219]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MgkeK-00073W-3F for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:28:47 -0700 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19so1632453gxk.0 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:28:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5oPg1a49yOeOGkrXoCP+AhU+h4V/RJq58T3Vv9UPCx8=; b=CyvnUcx5cS0S851TXUxPzYZpWJwPAuH00/Iv17MjxY//wlBwXtROMC8QUCHMINr7mG AHaoaHXLs0ky3J6HxyedSeLaai9KMfB7k3nfUow38/y6cEo6Jh3KWhohI4tlf0YWzXNd 5+dCCcZ5mGCj1ti5p9ToZVBjwP9zCArpLs+OY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IiYsSiHCdkfqFuD+dqgu+i+UEHMxVO91v01etUPgPInVegtvRiPAS6xgdwGcGGE7Xj ym/Z18m0ykswlYrSZraNkmRtMfjWpG15xzY9Qf/GTl7o80tLnAbn7HbGhYiVSOSaTSnn IzYQPLzh9pcCYiy/PMMiuQFjqvRcRPFgNPk2I= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.240.4 with SMTP id n4mr486603ybh.1.1251401317994; Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:28:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090827185838.GR4151@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20090827185838.GR4151@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:28:37 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [llg-members] Re: Bob: Activity is low because it's a business meeting. From: Matt Arnold To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 770 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: llg-members-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: llg-members@lojban.org X-list: llg-members On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 02:45:06PM -0400, Matt Arnold wrote: >> > But there is no participation at all, and the members meeting >> > seems to have become something to simply check off each year as >> > a pro forma legal event, rather than something that involves the >> > community in governing the organization. >> >> That's because it's a business meeting full of parlaimentarianism. >> When the community knows it's going to be like that, they stay >> away. > > Then they shouldn't be LLG members.  The only reason to be an LLG > member is to participate in this meeting. > > The LLG is a business organization; being a member means > participating in that organization's meetings.  If you want to help > the *language*, go work on the BPFK. Granted, but I'm saying "don't be surprised". The LLG has, and needs, almost no actual business, so activity is not to be expected here. The problem is that the overall community wrongly perceives this body to be vested with permission-granting authority for independent individuals to act on behalf of the language. They don't know whose toes they might be stepping on. I have seen the result take place many times: they try to engage, they're bored and confused by obstructionist legalisms, and fade away. When somebody like me or Cosmic Ray comes along, we should just go out and do what we want to do, and convince people to do it with us. In any organization, that's the only real power. The rest is, as Bob described it, "a pro-forma legal event". -Matt