Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]:40914) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RY8Ra-0006VY-8V; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:45:23 -0800 Received: by ghbg2 with SMTP id g2sf71563ghb.16 for ; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:45:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=X2n4rdQ1OEE73UiSepGQiCmiPiVFPH69dZon4W54QJ8=; b=xD5EZUFWSCV+nCSPOIXxDZnVlwZbV80DD0XGWz5ckY4I1qkJsyUAbek4mOsaH9dOP2 DW9akrm5ZYDLz10sGfv+aqd2eC6qtRqmCNXkae+m0SWO5dYZUTkTz+yy1YYxzv6WesEI LWWvrDhUMFFkrOFnFozX+oy+wVyIFL1Qc70eA= Received: by 10.236.157.168 with SMTP id o28mr3537276yhk.17.1323229508368; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:45:08 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.47.39 with SMTP id u39ls699490ybu.0.gmail; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.86.15 with SMTP id j15mr5235952anb.8.1323229507412; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.86.15 with SMTP id j15mr5235950anb.8.1323229507388; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gx0-f179.google.com (mail-gx0-f179.google.com [209.85.161.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r67si87861yhe.6.2011.12.06.19.45.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.179; Received: by ggnv5 with SMTP id v5so190492ggn.24 for ; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.101.107.9 with SMTP id j9mr3748609anm.100.1323229507182; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:45:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.14.2 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 19:44:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Luke Bergen Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 22:44:46 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] "Even" in lojban To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636ed7301bb631404b3786017 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --001636ed7301bb631404b3786017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hmmm, I think there's an implicite "main bridi" lurking in the sentence "even I wouldn't do that". The implication is "X is so revolting/unappealing/whatever THAT I wouldn't do it (despite the fact that such things normally don't bother me)". So using a more concrete example for WHY "even I wouldn't do it".... I wouldn't eat that = {mi na da'i citka ta} Even I wouldn't eat that = {ko'a citka xlali sela'u lo nu mi noi so'a cidja nelci ku'o na citka} On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 8:47 PM, .arpis. wrote: > So how would we differentiate between "I wouldn't do that." (with no weird > intonational hints) and "Even I wouldn't do that." > > {mi na da'i gasnu ra} vs ... ? > > The lion thing was a bad example (to try to show in lojban; I think it was > fine for getting across what I meant by "even") because the interesting > meaning is split between "so" and "even" > > > On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> My first thought was something like {do xlali se panci fi'o se banzu lo >> nu da'i lo cinfo cu na nelci lo nu citka do}. Come to think of it I'm kind >> of surprised that {banzu} doesn't get a bai cmavo. >> >> Or maybe {ja'e} would be better. {do xlali se panci ja'e lo nu da'i lo >> cinfo cu na nelci lo nu citka do}. >> >> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 7:39 PM, .arpis. wrote: >> >>> In the sense of "You smell so bad, even a starving lion wouldn't eat >>> you." >>> >>> vlasisku says: >>> do'anai in sense >>> "implying an extreme example" >>> >>> but I don't really understand {do'a} and {do'anai}, so I figured I'd ask >>> here. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --001636ed7301bb631404b3786017 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hmmm, I think there's an implicite "main bridi" lurking = in the sentence "even I wouldn't do that". =A0The implication= is "X is so revolting/unappealing/whatever THAT I wouldn't do it = (despite the fact that such things normally don't bother me)". =A0= So using a more concrete example for WHY "even I wouldn't do it&qu= ot;....

I wouldn't eat that =3D {mi na da'i citka ta}
Even I wouldn't eat that =3D {ko'a citka xlali sela'u = lo nu mi noi so'a cidja nelci ku'o na citka}

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 8:47 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
So how would we differentiate between "I wouldn't do that." (= with no weird intonational hints) and "Even I wouldn't do that.&qu= ot;

{mi na da'i gasnu ra} vs ... ?

The lion thing was a b= ad example (to try to show in lojban; I think it was fine for getting acros= s what I meant by "even") because the interesting meaning is spli= t between "so" and "even"


On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Luke Bergen = <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
My first thought was something like {do xlali se panci fi'o se banzu lo= nu da'i lo cinfo cu na nelci lo nu citka do}. =A0Come to think of it I= 'm kind of surprised that {banzu} doesn't get a bai cmavo.

Or maybe {ja'e} would be better. =A0{do xlali se panci ja= 9;e lo nu da'i lo cinfo cu na nelci lo nu citka do}.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 7:39 PM, .arpi= s. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
In the sens= e of "You smell so bad, even a starving lion wouldn't eat you.&quo= t;

vlasisku says:
do'anai in sense "implying an extreme example"

but I don't really understand {do'a} and {do'= anai}, so I figured I'd ask here.


--
mu'o mi'e .ar= pis.

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--
mu'o mi'= e .arpis.

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