Received: from mail-ey0-f189.google.com ([209.85.215.189]:32771) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RdxIA-0001n3-QK; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:44 -0800 Received: by eaak14 with SMTP id k14sf3388736eaa.16 for ; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hd/yiFLXAdtPBSPWcTo090eZA1wDdEjJ4WweULfYoXQ=; b=i8bi1Z4Pn3OyLy59HmVCSAq+3nkWS+hghRMPiaAPtghnUORreHhI0pt8nLvbb2g7oM ggArsAO7CAnAGW77v/hcC/khpcxi7P3Zbb1qPi35LqhNPuKpt7I17MjxwqIrp1h+FKV4 rqUVOpKQUSJYL6ooKVgRiY1ifZ+7bmnGfUMDk= Received: by 10.204.153.202 with SMTP id l10mr2452932bkw.0.1324616606388; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:26 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.130.207 with SMTP id u15ls40119775bks.0.gmail; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.129.212 with SMTP id p20mr549822bks.6.1324616605061; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.129.212 with SMTP id p20mr549821bks.6.1324616605040; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f42.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f42.google.com [209.85.215.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g19si9922927bkg.2.2011.12.22.21.03.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.42; Received: by lagj5 with SMTP id j5so8102476lag.1 for ; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.111.201 with SMTP id ik9mr6349453lab.8.1324616604614; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.114.230 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:03:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201112222330.28334.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 22:03:24 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Curses! From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04083f212e7fa504b4bb56b0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04083f212e7fa504b4bb56b0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Why does it matter what purpose it serves? If you don't like cursing, don't. I am full agreement that there is a such thing as too much expletive. But I also think there is a such thing as not enough. On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Lee Carlson wrote: > I thought that the *cu* could be left out if it did not create confusion. > As it appears to do so, I will amend my phrasing to reflect this and say: > *le cevni cu kurji ko* > As to arpis comment regarding the need for phrases that require no > thought: This is one of my concerns/gripes/disquiets with regard to * > cursing/swearing*. From my experience people use expletives when their > desire is to vent emotionally with something that sounds a bit more > civilized than a wordless scream of frustration/rage. Expletives, whether > curse words, swearing, or otherwise seldom carry any true semantic content > other than to provide a purely emotional label for the object of the user's > frustration. Most people resort to cursing/swearing when they do not wish > to be bothered to cerebrate around their rage/frustration though they want > to express their feelings to others around them, or often just themselves. > This is why my first responses to this thread were to question why we would > need cursing. I can understand nursery rhymes, as these all started out as > cautionary tales or lessons for children even if we have lost their > original meaning through the years. So my question still stands as: what * > purpose* does cursing fulfill, other than a cathartic release? > > > mu'o mi'e brais > > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > >> On Thursday 22 December 2011 22:07:08 Lee Carlson wrote: >> > I now have a better feel for what aionys is looking for, and I can >> > appreciate it more fully. For m'self I use the construction *le cevni >> kurji >> > ko* in place of the traditional pagan "blessed be." Since we are >> looking at >> > expletives that will fit the lojbanic culture, perhaps blessings can >> also >> > be derived. I happen to agree that culturally neutral does not mean >> > culturally absent; 'tis just that the culture of lojbanistan is still >> > evolving and I had not considered curses to this point. >> >> You mean "le cevni cu kurji ko", right? >> >> Pierre >> -- >> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow sharper. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d04083f212e7fa504b4bb56b0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why does it matter what purpose it serves? If you don't like cursing, d= on't. I am full agreement that there is a such thing as too much explet= ive. But I also think there is a such thing as not enough.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Lee Carlson <lorddraqo@gmail.com> wrote:
I thought t= hat the cu could be left out if it did not create confusion. As it a= ppears to do so, I will amend my phrasing to reflect this and say: le ce= vni cu kurji ko
As to arpis comment regarding the need for phrases that require no thought:= This is one of my concerns/gripes/disquiets with regard to cursing/swea= ring. From my experience people use expletives when their desire is to = vent emotionally with something that sounds a bit more civilized than a wor= dless scream of frustration/rage. Expletives, whether curse words, swearing= , or otherwise seldom carry any true semantic content other than to provide= a purely emotional label for the object of the user's frustration. Mos= t people resort to cursing/swearing when they do not wish to be bothered to= cerebrate around their rage/frustration though they want to express their = feelings to others around them, or often just themselves. This is why my fi= rst responses to this thread were to question why we would need cursing. I = can understand nursery rhymes, as these all started out as cautionary tales= or lessons for children even if we have lost their original meaning throug= h the years. So my question still stands as: what purpose does cursi= ng fulfill, other than a cathartic release?


mu'o mi'e brais

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:30 PM, = Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Thursday 22 December 2011 22:07:08 L= ee Carlson wrote:
> I now have a better feel for what aionys is looking for, and I can
> appreciate it more fully. For m'self I use the construction = *le cevni kurji
> ko* in place of the traditional pagan "blessed be." Since we= are looking at
> expletives that will fit the lojbanic culture, perhaps blessings = can also
> be derived. I happen to agree that culturally neutral does not mean > culturally absent; 'tis just that the culture of lojbanistan is st= ill
> evolving and I had not considered curses to this point.

You mean "le cevni cu kurji ko", right?

Pierre
--
I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wal= es.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to = grow sharper.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--f46d04083f212e7fa504b4bb56b0--