Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:51799) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RzWj6-0002C5-Os; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:08:44 -0800 Received: by yenr5 with SMTP id r5sf6685319yen.16 for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:08:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=A403gpM1JWbRI5jxWfjx71PGxIATGyktkR39WHY/pBI=; b=jm+jYvnyEAPZJSSecUzbnNfZq3ayS6BOGhoVhCS5yyI1Fk1Br8YqLlp9Exz1fF7Ld1 6kMc0o1F0MwSZgIHENF/E9ouq/q4xV8jqIaSSfQppu6Ik60WyKMr0jmgFME+mb8A8gu+ 2TpOgmVuWFBTOxPfYoypus9te6SFClUqv+Y2k= Received: by 10.236.146.10 with SMTP id q10mr2381790yhj.20.1329757681504; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:08:01 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.174.34 with SMTP id b34ls5862218anp.8.gmail; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.101.151.26 with SMTP id d26mr3829512ano.13.1329757680715; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.101.151.26 with SMTP id d26mr3829510ano.13.1329757680701; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from chausie (cpe-069-132-101-103.carolina.res.rr.com. [69.132.101.103]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id g10si11325225yhn.7.2012.02.20.09.08.00; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.132.101.103 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=69.132.101.103; Received: from darner.ixazon.lan (darner.ixazon.lan [192.168.7.5]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B11BA21588 for ; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:07:43 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: questions about 'cu' Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:07:33 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (DragonFly/3.1-DEVELOPMENT; KDE/4.5.5; i386; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201202201207.33671.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.132.101.103 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / On Monday, February 20, 2012 09:52:54 Adam Lopresto wrote: > Just to further what others have said, and try to make it more concrete, > you can achieve anything without {cu}, but sometimes at the expense of > adding terminators. Your example is splendid. If we wanted to omit {cu}, = we > could instead use >=20 > .iure'e le cevni ku kurji ko >=20 > (using the actual terminator for LE in place of the catch-all {cu}), or w= e > could rearrange things so we wouldn't need any separator at all. >=20 > .iure'e le cevni ko kurji >=20 > All of them are valid, all mean exactly the same thing, and your style is > entirely your choice. The last form is the shortest, and matches my > personal style. The {ku} version may be better as you're getting the hang > of terminators. The {cu} version has the marginal benefit of explicitly > marking the selbri, instead of relying on the listener to know that we've > gotten to that level (I've heard people praise that, again in more > complicated examples where it makes a difference). TMTOWTDI I actually said "iure'e le cevni ku kurji ko" when I read it aloud,=20 anticipating the "ku-" of "kurji". The short version is also made entirely = of=20 amphibrachyes (if "r=E9'e" is so stressed), which is pe'i the most natural = foot=20 for Lojban. I've come up with some sayings in amphibrachic n-meter, such as= =20 "lo drata cu muvdu .ijo lo se drata cu klama fu zi'o". Pierre --=20 Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.