On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:07 PM, = Patrick <sona= rman.77@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, I wouldn't say that "ca" (or any of selma'o PU) can= replace "cu" unambiguously. =A0Take the following sentence:
=
lo ca klama ca pinxe

In this case, = the first "ca" attaches to the sumti to make it mean something li= ke "the one currently going", where the second "ca" att= aches to the selbri of the entire bridi, for a total meaning of "the o= ne currently going is currently drinking", possibly alluding to someon= e drinking while driving or biking.

In other words: =A0I believe Mr. Jones is right ("= cu isn't needed in those cases"), but just left what those cases a= re a little cague.

"cu" always serves to= point out the main selbri relationship in the sentence. =A0Think of it lik= e an indicator. =A0Lojban is a strange language to all of us, and we can al= l sometimes use a little help picking out the verb in an English sentence. = =A0That's what "cu" does, basically. =A0Don't think about= it that other cmavo can "replace" it, because you can always hav= e "cu", it's just sometimes=A0superfluous. =A0You can say &qu= ot;le tavla ku cu barda" without being wrong, but it's just=A0unne= cessarily=A0clunky. =A0

My general tendency when learning was to always assume = I had to have a "cu", and then work out ways to avoid it as I lea= rned other terminators or tricks.

mi'e .tavic.=

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Jonathan Jo= nes <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
ca and friends (PU) can only appear before a selbri, so cu isn't needed= in those cases. So, yes, you can replace it.

However, PU is more us= eful than as merely a cu replacement.

For example:
{mi klama ca l= o bavlamdei lonu penmi lo pu pampe'o}, "I'm going to see my fo= rmer girlfriend tomorrow."

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 6:54 PM, RexScientia= rum <amt2839@gmail.com> wrote:
I am not sure I am even to a point where I want to worry about ku and
terminators just yet.

Anyway, is it correct to replace {cu} with {ca} to show that something
is happening 'right now'? =A0I was searching through some sentences=
using lojbo jufsisku (great resource) and came across a sentence using
it so I put it in jbofi'e and looked it up in jbovlaste (more great
resources) that is how I am guessing {ca} is used from what I learned
there. =A0I can't find anything in Lojban For Beginners or Lojban
Reference Grammar on using {ca} although I may have missed it.

Anyway, this is the sentence I found on lojbo jufsisku: "do ca catlu lo va tricu" which is says is supposed to translate as: "You'= re
looking at that tree."

sia ki'e

-RexScientiarum

On Feb 20, 9:52=A0am, Adam Lopresto <adamlopre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to further what others have said, and try to make it more concret= e,
> you can achieve anything without {cu}, but sometimes at the expense of=
> adding terminators. Your example is splendid. If we wanted to omit {cu= }, we
> could instead use
>
> .iure'e le cevni ku kurji ko
>
> (using the actual terminator for LE in place of the catch-all {cu}), o= r we
> could rearrange things so we wouldn't need any separator at all. >
> .iure'e le cevni ko kurji
>
> All of them are valid, all mean exactly the same thing, and your style= is
> entirely your choice. The last form is the shortest, and matches my > personal style. The {ku} version may be better as you're getting t= he hang
> of terminators. The {cu} version has the marginal benefit of explicitl= y
> marking the selbri, instead of relying on the listener to know that we= 've
> gotten to that level (I've heard people praise that, again in more=
> complicated examples where it makes a difference). TMTOWTDI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Lee Carlson <lorddr...@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
> > My thanks. I created a farewell, based on my spiritual path's= "blessed

> > be," which I render as *iure'e le cevni cu kurji k= o* by which I mean

> > "with spiritual love I direct you to act in such a way = that your perception
> > of god (the divine) cares about/for you." Have I accomplishe= d my goal?
>
> > mi'o mi'e brais
>
> > On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Michael Turniansky <

> > mturnian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> =A0 Yes, don't let lindar and his dialect contingent misl= ead you. =A0It DOES
> >> serve a purpose, but it can be worked around, as well. =A0Its= purpose is to
> >> mark which word/phrase in a bridi that is the main relationsh= ip. =A0Can it be
> >> worked around? =A0Yes, but as Pierre mentioned, it means prop= erly closing off
> >> all open structures before then.
>
> >> =A0 =A0So, what would you use in its place? =A0That depnds en= tirely on what
> >> needs terminating. =A0If nothing needs closing, the you don&#= 39;t need it.
>
> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa
>

> >> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Lee Carlson <<= a href=3D"mailto:lorddr...@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lorddr...@gmail.com= > wrote:
>
> >>> And here I was told that without cu one of my favorite st= atements made
> >>> no sense at all. So what is it: does cu serve a purpose, = or not? If not,
> >>> then what would I use in it's place?
>
> >>> mi'o brais
>

> >>> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:38 A= M, Lindar <= lindartheb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> The short answer:
> >>>> It's never necessary. NEVER.
> >>>> It's a handy shortcut sometimes.
> >>>> Learn to do without it at first or your grammar will = suck.
>
> >>>> --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed = to the Google
> >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/loj= ban-beginners/-/CuzwB6IY5XEJ.
>
> >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@goo= glegroups.com.
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.c= om.
> >>>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-begin= ners?hl=3Den.
>
> >>> --
> >>> The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to g= row sharper.
>
> >>> =A0--
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google
> >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googleg= roups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners= ?hl=3Den.
>
> >> =A0--
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle Groups
> >> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroup= s.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<= br> > >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den.
>
> > --
> > The World is a magical place, waiting for our senses to grow shar= per.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.co= m.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

-= -
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.