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Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:41:38 -1000
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: questions about 'cu'
From: Patrick <sonarman.77@gmail.com>
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Well, so far I haven't managed to find anything which says the way I wrote
it is wrong.  "LE PU broda" constructions and "LE broda PU brode" both
appear, with the meaning of the "LE PU broda" being equivalent to what I
said it would be individually (CLL C 10 12.12), and "LE broda PU brode"
giving the meaning I said that fragment would have (CLL, C 6, 2.8),
however, I haven't yet found any examples of the two types together
(namely, "LE PU broda PU brode") and *why* that's unambiguous.  CLL C 10
*does* say " The placement of a tense construct within a Lojban bridi is
easy: right before the selbri. It goes immediately after the ``cu'', and
can in fact always replace the ``cu'' (although in very complex sentences
the rules for eliding terminators may be changed as a result). "  I feel
confident in thinking that what I wrote is both gramatically correct and
conveyed the meaning I wanted it to, I'm just looking for how I'm right.
Will update again soon.

mi'e .tavic.

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 12:28 AM, Patrick <sonarman.77@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hmm, I'm not sure.  There might have to still be a "cu" in there, but I'm
> not positive.  I think maybe you can't nest PU inside of tanru?  I'll get
> back to you in a few minutes.  My disclaimer before I begin to find out
> just how wrong I am:  I'm very tired, and it's very late in my time zone.
>  Write again soon.
>
> mi'e .tavic.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Klaus F. Abel <kfa@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:07:58 -1000
>> Patrick <sonarman.77@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Well, I wouldn't say that "ca" (or any of selma'o PU) can replace "cu"
>> > unambiguously.  Take the following sentence:
>> >
>> > lo ca klama ca pinxe
>> >
>> > In this case, the first "ca" attaches to the sumti to make it mean
>> > something like "the one currently going", where the second "ca"
>> attaches to
>> > the selbri of the entire bridi, for a total meaning of "the one
>> currently
>> > going is currently drinking", possibly alluding to someone drinking
>> while
>> > driving or biking.
>> >
>>
>> How do you identify "pinxe" as a selbri in this case at all, i.e. what
>> stops one from reading the whole "ca klama ca pinxe" as a tanru (regardless
>> of how it would make sense in translation)? Is this really ambiguous, or
>> just plain wrong (the selbri reading, I mean)?
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> --
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>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>>
>

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Well, so far I haven&#39;t managed to find anything which says the way I wr=
ote it is wrong. =A0&quot;LE PU broda&quot; constructions and &quot;LE brod=
a PU brode&quot; both appear, with the meaning of the &quot;LE PU broda&quo=
t; being equivalent to what I said it would be individually (CLL C 10 12.12=
), and &quot;LE broda PU brode&quot; giving the meaning I said that fragmen=
t would have (CLL, C 6, 2.8), however, I haven&#39;t yet found any examples=
 of the two types together (namely, &quot;LE PU broda PU brode&quot;) and *=
why* that&#39;s unambiguous. =A0CLL C 10 *does* say &quot;
<span style=3D"font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:medium">The placement of a tense construct w=
ithin a Lojban bridi is easy: right before the selbri. It goes immediately =
after the ``cu&#39;&#39;, and can in fact always replace the ``cu&#39;&#39;=
 (although in very complex sentences the rules for eliding terminators may =
be changed as a result).</span>=A0&quot; =A0I feel confident in thinking th=
at what I wrote is both gramatically correct and conveyed the meaning I wan=
ted it to, I&#39;m just looking for how I&#39;m right. Will update again so=
on.<div>
<br></div><div>mi&#39;e .tavic.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, F=
eb 29, 2012 at 12:28 AM, Patrick <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:so=
narman.77@gmail.com">sonarman.77@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hmm, I&#39;m not sure. =A0There might have to still be a &quot;cu&quot; in =
there, but I&#39;m not positive. =A0I think maybe you can&#39;t nest PU ins=
ide of tanru? =A0I&#39;ll get back to you in a few minutes. =A0My disclaime=
r before I begin to find out just how wrong I am: =A0I&#39;m very tired, an=
d it&#39;s very late in my time zone. =A0Write again soon.<div>

<br></div><div>mi&#39;e .tavic.<div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Klaus F. Abel <span dir=3D"=
ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kfa@gmx.net" target=3D"_blank">kfa@gmx.net</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:07:58 -1000<br>
Patrick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sonarman.77@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sona=
rman.77@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Well, I wouldn&#39;t say that &quot;ca&quot; (or any of selma&#39;o PU=
) can replace &quot;cu&quot;<br>
&gt; unambiguously. =A0Take the following sentence:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; lo ca klama ca pinxe<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In this case, the first &quot;ca&quot; attaches to the sumti to make i=
t mean<br>
&gt; something like &quot;the one currently going&quot;, where the second &=
quot;ca&quot; attaches to<br>
&gt; the selbri of the entire bridi, for a total meaning of &quot;the one c=
urrently<br>
&gt; going is currently drinking&quot;, possibly alluding to someone drinki=
ng while<br>
&gt; driving or biking.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>How do you identify &quot;pinxe&quot; as a selbri in this case at all=
, i.e. what stops one from reading the whole &quot;ca klama ca pinxe&quot; =
as a tanru (regardless of how it would make sense in translation)? Is this =
really ambiguous, or just plain wrong (the selbri reading, I mean)?<br>


<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Klaus<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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