Received: from mail-ey0-f189.google.com ([209.85.215.189]:63325) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S3mZi-0004gy-6N; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:52:36 -0800 Received: by eaan10 with SMTP id n10sf2401094eaa.16 for ; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDN78f6BBoEhMgi0w@googlegroups.com designates 10.204.149.144 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.204.149.144; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDN78f6BBoEhMgi0w@googlegroups.com designates 10.204.149.144 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDN78f6BBoEhMgi0w@googlegroups.com; dkim=pass header.i=lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDN78f6BBoEhMgi0w@googlegroups.com Received: from mr.google.com ([10.204.149.144]) by 10.204.149.144 with SMTP id t16mr4498415bkv.4.1330771942488 (num_hops = 1); Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:52:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=RjtIH6G4iFZZaK3OuiHEzcGEth/wz9s5huQeifFsH5U=; b=jeuJZX3glAfXJqpgVDJEfxR+H7vlq1hZtMo5piP+6RYRk+eVw9BdFecJ9/N9sJNsBu qMQ/9uNyPWK+lwWvEnx6d6pnw2yYcq7JRQQ33ALEUEtYBDHqI3mzY5fHNmZ0qBba56aX bQvNuqA2Oc+uhq1RJgfmaGlILvU3Y2RNS75Nw= Received: by 10.204.149.144 with SMTP id t16mr1312454bkv.4.1330771917177; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:51:57 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.165.76 with SMTP id h12ls4873276bky.5.gmail; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.143.143 with SMTP id v15mr1067599bku.8.1330771915500; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.143.143 with SMTP id v15mr1067598bku.8.1330771915468; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f51.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f51.google.com [209.85.215.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ba12si9727006bkb.2.2012.03.03.02.51.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.51; Received: by laap9 with SMTP id p9so3830716laa.24 for ; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 10.112.101.194 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.112.101.194; Received: from mr.google.com ([10.112.101.194]) by 10.112.101.194 with SMTP id fi2mr6209160lbb.25.1330771915149 (num_hops = 1); Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:51:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.101.194 with SMTP id fi2mr5064280lbb.25.1330771915050; Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 02:51:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F51EE97.4020005@plasmatix.com> References: <8929c895-6264-4ae8-b9ff-1d3b3094d404@gr6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <20120302180216.GP29980@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <4F5156CA.3040104@plasmatix.com> <4F51EE97.4020005@plasmatix.com> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 03:51:55 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: **JUNK** Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Let's do something like this for Lojban! From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040169b5460d6604ba547b24 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Spam_score: 2.8 X-Spam_score_int: 28 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: I changed it for future revisions. I don't think it's important enough to debate. As far as {mi'e la .clalis.} is concerned, la isn't needed in that construct, and there's no second- or third-person equivalents. [...] Content analysis details: (2.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (eyeonus[at]gmail.com) -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.85.215.189 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FUZZY_CPILL BODY: Attempt to obfuscate words in spam 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 1.3 DRUGS_ERECTILE_OBFU Obfuscated reference to an erectile drug 2.2 DRUGS_ERECTILE Refers to an erectile drug 0.0 T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL To: misformatted and free email service --f46d040169b5460d6604ba547b24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I changed it for future revisions. I don't think it's important enough to debate. As far as {mi'e la .clalis.} is concerned, la isn't needed in that construct, and there's no second- or third-person equivalents. On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Miles Forster wrote: > I understand you're reasoning, but teaching wrong lojban to a beginner, > especially when it can be avoided, seems like a bad idea. If you want to > stick to {la}, then why not use {mi'e la. clalis} instead? > > Am 03.03.2012 00:54, schrieb Jonathan Jones: > > I don't want to sound rude. > > That seems rather nit-picky. In my opinion it is always more important > that you're understood than that you are right. Especially in a language > where "What is that?" is {ta me ma} because {ta mo} is too vague. > > When I am speaking of you in Lojban, I refer to you as {la.mailz.}. I > think it would be more confusing to someone who has no knowledge of Lojban > to use {zo} in those places, which is correct, rather than using {la}, > which jbopre can understand. > > It's a pleasure to meet you. My name is .aionys. > mi.ui penmi.oinai do mi'e.aionys. > > On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Miles Forster wrote: > >> You aren't called "someone called clalis", you're called "clalis". >> {mi se cmene zo .clalis} >> >> Am 03.03.2012 00:15, schrieb Jonathan Jones: >> >>> Okay, here's the first half translated. Someone else work on the last >>> half while I see what I can do with vectors. >>> >>> 1. coi >>> 2. mi se cmene la.clalis. >>> 3. ko'a goi la.djan. >>> 4. ko'a se cmene la.djan. >>> 5. cy: coi.djan. >>> 6. mi ninmu >>> 7. ko'a nanmu .i la.djan. nanmu >>> 8. cy: mi ninmu .i do nanmu >>> dy: mi nanmu .i do ninmu >>> 9. cy: ko'a nanmu >>> dy: ko'e ninmu >>> 10. mi zvati ti >>> 11. do zvati ta >>> 12. ko'i zvati tu >>> 13. mi .e do zvati ti .i mi'o zvati ti >>> 14. mi .e ko'i zvati ti .i mi'a zvati ti >>> 15. do .e ko'i zvati ta .i do'o zvati ta >>> 16. cy: mi se cmene la.clalis. .ije ko'a se cmene la.djan. .i ma cmene do >>> sy:mi se cmene la.sam. >>> 17. cy: do ralte lo ta mo vau doi.sam. >>> sy: mi ralte lo sedyta'u >>> 18. ti me lo mi sedyta'u .i mi ralte lo mi sedyta'u di'o lo xance .ik mi >>> xanra'e lo mi sedyta'u >>> 19. cy: xu ta me lo do sedyta'u >>> sy: go'i .i ti me lo mi sedyta'u >>> 20. cy: do ralte lo ta mo vau doi.djan. >>> dy: mi ralte lo tankytu'u .i ti me lo mi tankytu'u >>> 21. ti me lo la.sam. sedyta'u .ije ti me lo la.djan. tankytu'u >>> 22. sy: ta mo doi.clalis. >>> 23. cy: ta gerku >>> sy: xu ta me lo do gerku >>> 24. nago'i .i ta na me lo mi gerku .i ta me lo la.djan. gerku >>> 25. sy: doi.djan. ma cmene lo do gerku >>> dy: cmene la.flyfis. >>> 26. dy: la.flyfis. dalpe'o mi >>> sy: xu la.clalis. ralte ji'a lo dalpe'o >>> 27. sy: go'i .i lo cy. dalpe'o na.ue gerku .i ri mlatu .i lo mlatu cu se >>> cmene la snime (I don't how to attach PU to UI, so I left out "je" of >>> "jiqje".) >>> 28. xu la snime cu mlatu .i sny. barda.iepei mlatu >>> 29. go'i .i la snime cu barda .i ri tcebra >>> 30. lo vi mlatu cu barda .i lo vu mlatu cu cmalu >>> 31. lo vi mlatu cu barda fi lo vu mlatu .i lo vu mlatu cu cmalu fi lo vi >>> mlatu >>> 32. sy: xu la.flyfis. barda gerku >>> cy: nago'i .i la.flyfis. barda najenai cmalu .i ri na'obra >>> 33. cmalu sedyta'u ... barda sedyta'u ... na'obra sedyta'u >>> 34. barda zdani ... cmalu zdani ... na'obra zdani >>> 35. sy: la.djan. zvati ma >>> cy: ri zvati tu >>> 36. sy: mi zvati ma >>> cy: do zvati ta vau doi.sam. >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> -- >> /p4a ja ma%sam ni"dZwanja-\e ta %bja Z mu "karu/ >> /bja "dZi:wan i kwa "ZwEja ta Z mu "karu/ >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > -- > /p4a ja ma%sam ni"dZwanja-\e ta %bja Z mu "karu/ > /bja "dZi:wan i kwa "ZwEja ta Z mu "karu/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d040169b5460d6604ba547b24 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I changed it for future revisions. I don't think it's important eno= ugh to debate. As far as {mi'e la .clalis.} is concerned, la isn't = needed in that construct, and there's no second- or third-person equiva= lents.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Miles Forste= r <m3o@plasmatix.= com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
I understand you're reasoning, but teaching wrong lojban to a beginner, especially when it can be avoided, seems like a bad idea. If you want to stick to {la}, then why not use {mi'e la. clalis} instead?

Am 03.03.2012 00:54, schrieb Jonathan Jones:
I don't want to sound rude.

That seems rather nit-picky. In my opinion it is always more important that you're understood than that you are right. Especially in a language where "What is that?" is {ta me ma= } because {ta mo} is too vague.

When I am speaking of you in Lojban, I refer to you as {la.mailz.}. I think it would be more confusing to someone who has no knowledge of Lojban to use {zo} in those places, which is correct, rather than using {la}, which jbopre can understand.

It's a pleasure to meet you. My name is .aionys.
mi.ui penmi.oinai do mi'e.aionys.

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Miles Forster <m3o@plasmatix.com> wrote:
You aren't called "someone called clalis", you're called "= ;clalis".
{mi se cmene zo .clalis}

Am 03.03.2012 00:15, schrieb Jonathan Jones:
Okay, here's the first half translated. Someone else work on the last half while I see what I can do with vectors.

1. coi
2. mi se cmene la.clalis.
3. ko'a goi la.djan.
4. ko'a se cmene la.djan.
5. cy: coi.djan.
6. mi ninmu
7. ko'a nanmu .i la.djan. nanmu
8. cy: mi ninmu .i do nanmu
=A0 =A0dy: mi nanmu .i do ninmu
9. cy: ko'a nanmu
=A0 =A0dy: ko'e ninmu
10. mi zvati ti
11. do zvati ta
12. ko'i zvati tu
13. mi .e do zvati ti .i mi'o zvati ti
14. mi .e ko'i zvati ti .i mi'a zvati ti
15. do .e ko'i zvati ta .i do'o zvati ta
16. cy: mi se cmene la.clalis. .ije ko'a se cmene la.djan. .i ma cmene do
=A0 =A0 =A0sy:mi se cmene la.sam.
17. cy: do ralte lo ta mo vau doi.sam.
=A0 =A0 =A0sy: mi ralte lo sedyta'u
18. ti me lo mi sedyta'u .i mi ralte lo mi sedyta'u= di'o lo xance .ik mi xanra'e lo mi sedyta'u
19. cy: xu ta me lo do sedyta'u
=A0 =A0 =A0sy: go'i .i ti me lo mi sedyta'u
20. cy: do ralte lo ta mo vau doi.djan.
=A0 =A0 =A0dy: mi ralte lo tankytu'u .i ti me lo mi tan= kytu'u
21. ti me lo la.sam. sedyta'u .ije ti me lo la.djan. tankytu'u
22. sy: ta mo doi.clalis.
23. cy: ta gerku
=A0 =A0 =A0sy: xu ta me lo do gerku
24. nago'i .i ta na me lo mi gerku .i ta me lo la.djan. gerku
25. sy: doi.djan. ma cmene lo do gerku
=A0 =A0 =A0dy: cmene la.flyfis.
26. dy: la.flyfis. dalpe'o mi
=A0 =A0 =A0sy: xu la.clalis. ralte ji'a lo dalpe'o<= br> 27. sy: go'i .i lo cy. dalpe'o na.ue gerku .i ri ml= atu .i lo mlatu cu se cmene la snime (I don't how to attach PU to UI, so I left out "je" of "jiqje"= .)
28. xu la snime cu mlatu .i sny. barda.iepei mlatu
29. go'i .i la snime cu barda .i ri tcebra
30. lo vi mlatu cu barda .i lo vu mlatu cu cmalu
31. lo vi mlatu cu barda fi lo vu mlatu .i lo vu mlatu cu cmalu fi lo vi mlatu
32. sy: xu la.flyfis. barda gerku
=A0 =A0 =A0cy: nago'i .i la.flyfis. barda najenai cmalu= .i ri na'obra
33. cmalu sedyta'u ... barda sedyta'u ... na'ob= ra sedyta'u
34. barda zdani ... cmalu zdani ... na'obra zdani
35. sy: la.djan. zvati ma
=A0 =A0 =A0cy: ri zvati tu
36. sy: mi zvati ma
=A0 =A0 =A0cy: do zvati ta vau doi.sam.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroup= s.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojba= n-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://group= s.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


--
/p4a ja ma%sam ni"dZwanja-\e ta %bja Z mu "karu/
/bja "dZi:wan i kwa "ZwEja ta Z mu "karu/


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroup= s.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojba= n-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://group= s.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


--=20
/p4a ja ma%sam ni"dZwanja-\e ta %bja Z mu "karu/
/bja "dZi:wan i kwa "ZwEja ta Z mu "karu/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to
lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'= e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. m= i patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<= br>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--f46d040169b5460d6604ba547b24--