Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:62102) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S508t-0003KK-9f; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:34:00 -0800 Received: by bkcjg9 with SMTP id jg9sf5369905bkc.16 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhD-zNn6BBoEiL-z9w@googlegroups.com designates 10.204.155.79 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.204.155.79; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhD-zNn6BBoEiL-z9w@googlegroups.com designates 10.204.155.79 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhD-zNn6BBoEiL-z9w@googlegroups.com; dkim=pass header.i=lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhD-zNn6BBoEiL-z9w@googlegroups.com Received: from mr.google.com ([10.204.155.79]) by 10.204.155.79 with SMTP id r15mr7651586bkw.21.1331062423608 (num_hops = 1); Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5/XZgsT7iW+yOHHR6rbCH4W05W5DdI97awAqn6D9zjw=; b=eVSzYaMGfFGLZziOH/mOk6nMjozDfkfybpegEuGEJ9Oz27tACr6bncMAu75UDlMsMk I900K4b5sqJfY6KzA1XxXkHa+/f/iQYOdCROrilSSNGXbQxiGgWhm+9Zhwn0U4ubqzPM Xe30LryNcsMSQIutb2G2zdIRG48a7t8LOJAng= Received: by 10.204.155.79 with SMTP id r15mr2266022bkw.21.1331062399007; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:19 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.33.141 with SMTP id h13ls1316922bkd.7.gmail; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.143.143 with SMTP id v15mr2089212bku.8.1331062397127; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.143.143 with SMTP id v15mr2089211bku.8.1331062397090; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f47.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f47.google.com [209.85.215.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l17si22886185bkb.1.2012.03.06.11.33.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:17 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.47; Received: by mail-lpp01m010-f47.google.com with SMTP id w12so6672523lag.6 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 10.152.112.100 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.152.112.100; Received: from mr.google.com ([10.152.112.100]) by 10.152.112.100 with SMTP id ip4mr23657940lab.1.1331062396960 (num_hops = 1); Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.112.100 with SMTP id ip4mr19382754lab.1.1331062396882; Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:33:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20043302.5515.1331053602321.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynnk21> References: <20043302.5515.1331053602321.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynnk21> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:33:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Just having trouble putting a sentence together in general... Think I figured it out From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040838fd570e4f04ba981d06 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d040838fd570e4f04ba981d06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The short answer is yes. the long answer is, cu is never strictly necessary, as it is possible to use terminators to do the same thing, but it is very, very useful. lo mlatu citka lo finpe does not mean "The cat eats fish". it means "The cat-type-of-eater the fish." cu is needed between mlatu and citka to prevent tanru grouping, or the sumti terminator ku These are both "The cat eats fish": lo mlatu cu citka lo finpe one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-cat eats one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-fish lo mlatu ku citka finpe one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-cat eats one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-fish On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, RexScientiarum wrote: > Again, we come to the issue of {cu}. My understanding is that it is still > correct to use it as I did, just not necessary. I don't care if I am being > wordy at this point, I am more concerned with being flat out wrong. > > Would it be 'necessary' to use {cu} if there was something there that > could be confused as a tanru (I mean assuming I didn't want to restructure > the whole sentence)? > > On Monday, March 5, 2012 7:51:45 PM UTC-6, aionys wrote: >> >> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:24 PM, RexScientiarum wrote: >> >> I am a little confused as to how I can make this sentence: >>> >>> I use a microscope to look at the microbe. >>> >>> >>> I guess this is the best way to say this: >>> >>> .i mi cu zgana lo jurme le cmactatci >>> >> >> That is exactly right, although you don't need cu in that sentence- mi >> cannot form tanru. >> >> >>> At first I used pilno to say that I would use the microscope more like >>> I had originally envisioned the sentence in English but then I >>> couldn't figure out I could use that to say I 'used' the microscope to >>> 'look' at the microbe. There aren't enough sumti x spaces for that or >>> any direct way to relate that x1(I) am using x2(microscope) in manner >>> x3(to look at)....... a microbe..... right? >>> >> >> If you really want to use pilno as your selbri: >> >> pilno: x1 uses/employs x2 for purpose x3. >> The x3 of pilno is what the x2 is being used by x1 for. This is usually >> an event, such as the event of looking at microbes. >> >> I use a-microscope for-purpose an-event-of observing a-microbe >> mi pilno lo cmactatci lonu zgana lo jurme >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/lBsv7xZMH3EJ. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d040838fd570e4f04ba981d06 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The short answer is yes. the long answer is, cu is never strictly necessary= , as it is possible to use terminators to do the same thing, but it is very= , very useful.

lo mlatu citka lo finpe does not mean "The cat e= ats fish". it means "The cat-type-of-eater the fish."

cu is needed between mlatu and citka to prevent tanru grouping, or the = sumti terminator ku

These are both "The cat eats fish":lo mlatu cu citka lo finpe
one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-cat <= ;selbri is next word!> eats one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-fish
lo mlatu ku citka finpe
one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-cat <= ;end sumti> eats one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-fish


On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, RexScientiarum <amt2839@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
Again, we come to the issue of {cu}. =A0My u= nderstanding is that it is still correct to use it as I did, just not=A0nec= essary. =A0I don't care if I am being wordy at this point, I am more co= ncerned with being flat out wrong.

Would it be 'necessary' to use {cu} if =A0there was someth= ing there that could be confused as a tanru (I mean assuming I didn't w= ant to restructure the whole sentence)?

On Monday, March 5, 2012 7:5= 1:45 PM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:24 PM, RexScientiarum= =A0wrote:

I am a little confused as to how I can make this sentence:

I use a microscope to look at the microbe.


I guess this is the best way to say this:

.i mi cu zgana lo jurme le cmactatci

That is exact= ly right, although you don't need cu in that sentence- mi cannot form t= anru.
=A0
At first I used pilno to say that I would use the microscope more like
I had originally envisioned the sentence in English but then I
couldn't figure out I could use that to say I 'used' the micros= cope to
'look' at the microbe. =A0There aren't enough sumti x spaces fo= r that or
any direct way to relate that x1(I) am using x2(microscope) in manner
x3(to look at)....... a microbe..... right?
If you really want to use pilno as your selbri:

pilno: x1 uses/employs x2 for purpose x3.
The x3 of pilno = is what the x2 is being used by x1 for. This is usually an event, such as t= he event of looking at microbes.

I use a-microscope for-purpose an-event-of observing a-microbe
mi pilno lo cmactatci lonu zgana lo jurme

--
mu= 9;o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i= doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your fa= ther. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/lBsv7xZMH3EJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--f46d040838fd570e4f04ba981d06--