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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:33:05 -0800 (PST)
From: RexScientiarum <amt2839@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Just having trouble putting a sentence
 together in general... Think I figured it out
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Right okay, that is exactly what I thought.  Thanks.  I think I have a 
pretty good understanding of it now.

On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 1:33:16 PM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
>
> The short answer is yes. the long answer is, cu is never strictly 
> necessary, as it is possible to use terminators to do the same thing, but 
> it is very, very useful.
>
> lo mlatu citka lo finpe does not mean "The cat eats fish". it means "The 
> cat-type-of-eater the fish."
>
> cu is needed between mlatu and citka to prevent tanru grouping, or the 
> sumti terminator ku
>
> These are both "The cat eats fish":
> lo mlatu cu citka lo finpe
> one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-cat <selbri is next word!> eats 
> one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-fish
>
> lo mlatu ku citka finpe
> one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-cat <end sumti> eats 
> one-or-more-things-which-actually-is-fish
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, RexScientiarum <amt2839@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Again, we come to the issue of {cu}.  My understanding is that it is 
>> still correct to use it as I did, just not necessary.  I don't care if I am 
>> being wordy at this point, I am more concerned with being flat out wrong.
>>
>> Would it be 'necessary' to use {cu} if  there was something there that 
>> could be confused as a tanru (I mean assuming I didn't want to restructure 
>> the whole sentence)?
>>
>> On Monday, March 5, 2012 7:51:45 PM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:24 PM, RexScientiarum wrote:
>>>
>>> I am a little confused as to how I can make this sentence:
>>>>
>>>> I use a microscope to look at the microbe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I guess this is the best way to say this:
>>>>
>>>> .i mi cu zgana lo jurme le cmactatci
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is exactly right, although you don't need cu in that sentence- mi 
>>> cannot form tanru.
>>>  
>>>
>>>> At first I used pilno to say that I would use the microscope more like
>>>> I had originally envisioned the sentence in English but then I
>>>> couldn't figure out I could use that to say I 'used' the microscope to
>>>> 'look' at the microbe.  There aren't enough sumti x spaces for that or
>>>> any direct way to relate that x1(I) am using x2(microscope) in manner
>>>> x3(to look at)....... a microbe..... right?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you really want to use pilno as your selbri:
>>>
>>> pilno: x1 uses/employs x2 for purpose x3.
>>> The x3 of pilno is what the x2 is being used by x1 for. This is usually 
>>> an event, such as the event of looking at microbes.
>>>
>>> I use a-microscope for-purpose an-event-of observing a-microbe
>>> mi pilno lo cmactatci lonu zgana lo jurme
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>>
>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>>
>>>  -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/lBsv7xZMH3EJ.
>>
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>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
>

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Right okay, that is exactly what I thought. &nbsp;Thanks. &nbsp;I think I h=
ave a pretty good understanding of it now.<br><br>On Tuesday, March 6, 2012=
 1:33:16 PM UTC-6, aionys wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;=
">The short answer is yes. the long answer is, cu is never strictly necessa=
ry, as it is possible to use terminators to do the same thing, but it is ve=
ry, very useful.<br><br>lo mlatu citka lo finpe does not mean "The cat eats=
 fish". it means "The cat-type-of-eater the fish."<br>
<br>cu is needed between mlatu and citka to prevent tanru grouping, or the =
sumti terminator ku<br><br>These are both "The cat eats fish":<br>lo mlatu =
cu citka lo finpe<br>one-or-more-things-which-<wbr>actually-is-cat &lt;selb=
ri is next word!&gt; eats one-or-more-things-which-<wbr>actually-is-fish<br=
>
<br>lo mlatu ku citka finpe<br>one-or-more-things-which-<wbr>actually-is-ca=
t &lt;end sumti&gt; eats one-or-more-things-which-<wbr>actually-is-fish<br>=
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, RexScie=
ntiarum <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amt2839@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">amt2839@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Again, we come to the issue of {cu}. &nbsp;M=
y understanding is that it is still correct to use it as I did, just not&nb=
sp;necessary. &nbsp;I don't care if I am being wordy at this point, I am mo=
re concerned with being flat out wrong.<div>
<br><div>Would it be 'necessary' to use {cu} if &nbsp;there was something t=
here that could be confused as a tanru (I mean assuming I didn't want to re=
structure the whole sentence)?<br><br>On Monday, March 5, 2012 7:51:45 PM U=
TC-6, aionys wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;marg=
in-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:24 PM, RexScientiarum&n=
bsp;wrote:<div><div></div><div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I am a little confused as to how I can make this sentence:<br>
<br>
I use a microscope to look at the microbe.<br>
<br>
<br>
I guess this is the best way to say this:<br>
<br>
.i mi cu zgana lo jurme le cmactatci<br></blockquote><div><br>That is exact=
ly right, although you don't need cu in that sentence- mi cannot form tanru=
.<br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt =
0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">



At first I used pilno to say that I would use the microscope more like<br>
I had originally envisioned the sentence in English but then I<br>
couldn't figure out I could use that to say I 'used' the microscope to<br>
'look' at the microbe. &nbsp;There aren't enough sumti x spaces for that or=
<br>
any direct way to relate that x1(I) am using x2(microscope) in manner<br>
x3(to look at)....... a microbe..... right?<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
</font></blockquote></div></div></div><div><div></div><div><br>If you reall=
y want to use pilno as your selbri:<br><br>pilno: x<sub>1</sub> uses/employ=
s x<sub>2</sub> for purpose x<sub>3</sub>.<br>The x3 of pilno is what the x=
2 is being used by x1 for. This is usually an event, such as the event of l=
ooking at microbes.<br>


<br>
I use a-microscope for-purpose an-event-of observing a-microbe<br>
mi pilno lo cmactatci lonu zgana lo jurme<br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu'o =
mi'e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi=
 patfu do zo'o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>

<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div><div>

<p></p>

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<br>=20
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wbr>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu'o mi'e .=
aionys.<br><br>.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu=
 do zo'o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
<br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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