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On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:54 PM, ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote:

> <snip>
> > 20. cy: doi.djan. do ralte lo ta mo
>
> I think it should be "lo va mo", parallel to 17.
>

It should be. I'm going to call this a typo.

<snip>
> >      dy: zo.flyfis. cmene
>
> Why not flufis? Ceqli "u" is defined "U as in bOOt".
>

It seems fairly obvious to me that "flufizo" is a Ceqli-ization of
"Fluffy", which is a fairly common English name for a dog. .flyfis. is
closer to "Fluffy" than .flufis.

<snip>
>
> 27. go'i .ijenai lo cy. dalpe'o na gerku .i lo go'i cu mlatu .i lo mlatu
> cu
>
> Double negation? I think it should be either {go'i .ije lo cy. dalpe'o
> na gerku} or {go'i .ijenai lo cy. dalpe'o gerku}. The former is
> simpler for beginners, pe'i.
>

Huh. I thought I'd fixed that. Hm, it must be some other spot that had a
double negative I fixed....

 > 28. xu la snime cu mlatu .i sny. barda.iepei mlatu
>
> {sny} is not a Lojban word, according to vlatai.


Yes. I know.


> {sy} was taken by
> Sam, but it refers (without {goi}) to the most recent S-sumti, am I
> right?
>

I don't know. What I do know is, beginner's /won't/ know, and will most
likely assume that sy. will still reference Sam.

I thought of saying syny., but I wasn't certain if readers would get that
syny. = la snime, whereas I'm fairly certain they would get sny. = la snime

I also thought of using my., but again, I wasn't sure if readers would be
able to transition along my. = le mlatu = la snime

I suppose I could say lo go'i...


>  <snip>
> > 40. la.djan. mi speni .i la.djan. nakspe mi .ije mi fetspe dy. .i mi'a me
> > lo nakspe je fetspe gi'e kansa xabju
>
> Wouldn't {joi} be more appropriate here, instead of {je}?
>

Possibly, but it introduces a new concept, and je is still appropriate.

mi'a me lo nakspe je fetspe = "myself-and-others are-amongst-those-that-are
something-which-actually-is-one-or-more-wives-and-husbands"

<snip>
> > 50. lo vu cipni cu danlu gi'enai dalpe'o .i lo dalpe'o cu danlu pendo
> gi'e
> > xabju lo nanmu je ninmu .i lo vu cipni cu xabju lo tricu
>
>
> Again, why {je}? I thought that {nanmu je ninmu} is some kind of
> hermaphrodite... I would say {lo nanmu ja ninmu} or {lo nanmu a lo
> ninmu}.
>

It's not my fault you're assuming {lo nanmu je ninmu} refers to a single
entity.

Yes, it should be {lo nanmu ja ninmu}.


> <snip>
> > 54. cy: xu do'o srana lo verba
>
> I don't think {stuzi} would work here... So maybe let's keep 42 as is.
>

That was my thinking.

<snip>
>
> 56. lo mi'a bersa cu zvati ti .i lo go'i cu barda lo vu nanla .i se cmene
>
> {barda fi lo vu nanla}
> I'm not sure that barda3 ("standard/norm") works like bramau2, but
> ok...
>

I'll just add zmadu and make it a tanru. I don't like the idea of using yet
another new lujvo, but you're right that barda alone doesn't really work.

<snip>
> > 60. le ci verba cu bersa mi .ija'a bersa mi .i mi mamta le ci verba .i
>
> The second {bersa mi} sounds redundant, much more than the original. I
> would remove it.
>

I don't consider redundancy in a teaching tool to be a valid reason for
removal.


>  <snip>
> >       by: ko'a goi zo.zam. .i lo go'i cu bruna la.sam. .i mi fetspe
> la.sam.
>
> {ko'a goi la.zam.}
>

Thank you. I must've done that by mistake when I was changing the {la} in
the {se cmene la.} occurrences to {zo}.


>  <snip>
> > 63. cy: ta mo
> >       by: ta patfu mi .i ta se cmene zo.baluz. .i la.baluz. patfu mi
> .iji'a
> > pafspe la.sam. gi'e mamypa'u ci mi'a verba .i la.sam. be'aspe la.baluz.
> >       sy: coi.beluz.
>
> {baluz} (or {balus}, whatever)
>

Typo.


>  <snip>
> > 65. ji'a la.baluz. .e la.djin. srana lo bersa noi se cmene zo.jos. .i
>
> In Ceqli "o" is pronounced "ou", as in "boat", so maybe {djous}? Too
> bad he'd be another "dy" in sight.
>

Same thing as with Fluffy. His name is obviously Joe. The "yet another dy."
is my reason for not calling him .djos.

<snip>
>

I'll make the fixes and re-post the translation when I have.

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--bcaec554d6dc0674ac04ba9a5174
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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:54 PM, ianek <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:janek37@gmail.com">janek37@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">&lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; 20. cy: doi.djan. do ralte lo ta mo<br>
<br>
</div></div>I think it should be &quot;lo va mo&quot;, parallel to 17.<br><=
/blockquote><div><br>It should be. I&#39;m going to call this a typo. <br><=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">&lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0dy: zo.flyfis. cmene<br>
<br>
</div>Why not flufis? Ceqli &quot;u&quot; is defined &quot;U as in bOOt&quo=
t;.<br></blockquote><div><br>It seems fairly obvious to me that &quot;flufi=
zo&quot; is a Ceqli-ization of &quot;Fluffy&quot;, which is a fairly common=
 English name for a dog. .flyfis. is closer to &quot;Fluffy&quot; than .flu=
fis.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>&lt;snip&gt; <br></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">&gt; 27. go&#39;i .ijenai lo cy. dalpe&#3=
9;o na gerku .i lo go&#39;i cu mlatu .i lo mlatu cu<br>

<br>
</div>Double negation? I think it should be either {go&#39;i .ije lo cy. da=
lpe&#39;o<br>
na gerku} or {go&#39;i .ijenai lo cy. dalpe&#39;o gerku}. The former is<br>
simpler for beginners, pe&#39;i.<br></blockquote><div><br>Huh. I thought I&=
#39;d fixed that. Hm, it must be some other spot that had a double negative=
 I fixed.... <br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
">

<div class=3D"im">

&gt; 28. xu la snime cu mlatu .i sny. barda.iepei mlatu<br>
<br>
</div>{sny} is not a Lojban word, according to vlatai. </blockquote><div><b=
r>Yes. I know.<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
">
{sy} was taken by<br>
Sam, but it refers (without {goi}) to the most recent S-sumti, am I<br>
right?<br></blockquote><div><br>I don&#39;t know. What I do know is, beginn=
er&#39;s /won&#39;t/ know, and will most likely assume that sy. will still =
reference Sam.<br><br>I thought of saying syny., but I wasn&#39;t certain i=
f readers would get that syny. =3D la snime, whereas I&#39;m fairly certain=
 they would get sny. =3D la snime<br>
<br>I also thought of using my., but again, I wasn&#39;t sure if readers wo=
uld be able to transition along my. =3D le mlatu =3D la snime<br><br>I supp=
ose I could say lo go&#39;i...<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">
&lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; 40. la.djan. mi speni .i la.djan. nakspe mi .ije mi fetspe dy. .i mi&#=
39;a me<br>
&gt; lo nakspe je fetspe gi&#39;e kansa xabju<br>
<br>
</div>Wouldn&#39;t {joi} be more appropriate here, instead of {je}?<br></bl=
ockquote><div><br>Possibly, but it introduces a new concept, and je is stil=
l appropriate. <br><br>mi&#39;a me lo nakspe je fetspe =3D &quot;myself-and=
-others are-amongst-those-that-are something-which-actually-is-one-or-more-=
wives-and-husbands&quot;<br>
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">&lt;snip&gt;<br=
><div class=3D"im">
&gt; 50. lo vu cipni cu danlu gi&#39;enai dalpe&#39;o .i lo dalpe&#39;o cu =
danlu pendo gi&#39;e<br>
&gt; xabju lo nanmu je ninmu .i lo vu cipni cu xabju lo tricu<br>
<br>
</div><br>Again, why {je}? I thought that {nanmu je ninmu} is some kind of<=
br>
hermaphrodite... I would say {lo nanmu ja ninmu} or {lo nanmu a lo<br>
ninmu}.<br></blockquote><div><br>It&#39;s not my fault you&#39;re assuming =
{lo nanmu je ninmu} refers to a single entity.<br><br>Yes, it should be {lo=
 nanmu ja ninmu}.<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex">

<div class=3D"im">&lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; 54. cy: xu do&#39;o srana lo verba<br>
<br>
</div>I don&#39;t think {stuzi} would work here... So maybe let&#39;s keep =
42 as is.<br></blockquote><div><br>That was my thinking. <br><br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div>&lt;snip&gt; <br></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">&gt; 56. lo mi&#39;a bersa cu zvati ti .i=
 lo go&#39;i cu barda lo vu nanla .i se cmene<br>

<br>
</div>{barda fi lo vu nanla}<br>
I&#39;m not sure that barda3 (&quot;standard/norm&quot;) works like bramau2=
, but<br>
ok...<br></blockquote><div><br>I&#39;ll just add zmadu and make it a tanru.=
 I don&#39;t like the idea of using yet another new lujvo, but you&#39;re r=
ight that barda alone doesn&#39;t really work.<br><br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">&lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; 60. le ci verba cu bersa mi .ija&#39;a bersa mi .i mi mamta le ci verb=
a .i<br>
<br>
</div>The second {bersa mi} sounds redundant, much more than the original. =
I<br>
would remove it.<br></blockquote><div><br>I don&#39;t consider redundancy i=
n a teaching tool to be a valid reason for removal.<br>=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">
&lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 by: ko&#39;a goi zo.zam. .i lo go&#39;i cu bruna la.sam. .=
i mi fetspe la.sam.<br>
<br>
</div>{ko&#39;a goi la.zam.}<br></blockquote><div><br>Thank you. I must&#39=
;ve done that by mistake when I was changing the {la} in the {se cmene la.}=
 occurrences to {zo}.<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">
&lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; 63. cy: ta mo<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 by: ta patfu mi .i ta se cmene zo.baluz. .i la.baluz. patf=
u mi .iji&#39;a<br>
&gt; pafspe la.sam. gi&#39;e mamypa&#39;u ci mi&#39;a verba .i la.sam. be&#=
39;aspe la.baluz.<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 sy: coi.beluz.<br>
<br>
</div>{baluz} (or {balus}, whatever)<br></blockquote><div><br>Typo.<br>=A0<=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">
&lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; 65. ji&#39;a la.baluz. .e la.djin. srana lo bersa noi se cmene zo.jos.=
 .i<br>
<br>
</div>In Ceqli &quot;o&quot; is pronounced &quot;ou&quot;, as in &quot;boat=
&quot;, so maybe {djous}? Too<br>
bad he&#39;d be another &quot;dy&quot; in sight.<br></blockquote><div><br>S=
ame thing as with Fluffy. His name is obviously Joe. The &quot;yet another =
dy.&quot; is my reason for not calling him .djos.<br><br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"h5">&lt;snip&gt;<br>
</div></blockquote></div><br>I&#39;ll make the fixes and re-post the transl=
ation when I have.<br><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39=
;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p>

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