Received: from mail-ee0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]:54010) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S5upk-0008EV-E1; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:06:01 -0800 Received: by eeke50 with SMTP id e50sf1400740eek.16 for ; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:05:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=8xmwe2FwmDlvS2M3FsV2+U0VqrijQCqlak9K9Ep68II=; b=kJNygW68/P2DiDdHtvYFME9X6o/Njns3ujM0qo+PMjCEvxlQGY9C1GjDOGgAPag2/Z PP+cr1G9eA+LkgVtm9iHraRj5BSwQC8r2fP78LWy5QxZDcZHjpbGsCVe7RYV28C92r19 jvub5InSGOZONghFWu3ETqzUSLNq2+FWvk/Gg= Received: by 10.205.134.132 with SMTP id ic4mr88065bkc.28.1331280317589; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:05:17 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.181.202 with SMTP id bz10ls5166170bkb.0.gmail; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:05:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.156.210 with SMTP id y18mr87849bkw.7.1331280316630; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:05:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.156.210 with SMTP id y18mr87848bkw.7.1331280316602; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:05:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f179.google.com (mail-lb0-f179.google.com [209.85.217.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 8si5125232bka.1.2012.03.09.00.05.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:05:16 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.179; Received: by lbbgn12 with SMTP id gn12so269518lbb.38 for ; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:05:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.147.1 with SMTP id tg1mr916284lab.22.1331280316173; Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:05:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 00:05:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <13108417.226.1331267756499.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbkc1> <17799116.250.1331273610516.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbai14> <32656581.370.1331277547632.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbed8> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 01:05:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {me ko'a} instead of {broda} ? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f235177578b6e04bacada0b X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8f235177578b6e04bacada0b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Another thing I nearly forgot to mention. lo gusta = "one or more things which actually is a restaurant" = "(a) restaurant(s)" re gusta = re lo gusta = "two things which actually are restaurants" = "two restaurants". re lo pa gusta = "one of two things (blah blah)" = "one of two restaurants". lo re gusta = "two of one or more things (blah blah)" = "two of X restaurants", where X is an unstated number. In PA1 lo PA2 broda, PA1 is the number of things, PA2 is how many of PA1 we're currently talking about. I just wanted to mention that because you originally wrote {ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta}. On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> If you wanted to refer to them individually, as far as I am aware, you'd >> have to either call them directly ({le finpe gusta} and {le pinynabycerni >> gusta) (Note: There's no current valsi I know of for pancake. I'm using >> "flat breakfast bread" for it.)), or assign them individually. >> >> I suppose you could say something like {le finpe me ko'e}. Although that >> sounds ugly to me, I believe it would work for either your or my assignment >> of ko'e, the difference being that your assignment of ko'e would make {le >> finpe me ko'e} refer to a fish restaraunt out of the set of all existing >> restaraunts, whereas my ko'e would make it refer to a fish restaraunt out >> of the set of two restaraunts, regardless of how many exist. >> >> Now that I think about it, I think the best assignment for ko'e would be >> {ko'e goi re ko'a gusta}, since you are wanting to talk about HIS two >> restaraunts. >> >> So, with all that in mind, my best guess would be: >> >> ko'a ponse ko'e goi re ko'a gusta >> ko'a owns ko'e, where ko'e is his two restaurants. >> ko'a owns two restaurants. >> >> .i lo finpe me ko'e vi zvati lo xamsi >> The fish type-of ko'e is near the ocean. >> > > Sorry, that should be "The fish type-of things-which-are-ko'e is near the > ocean." > > >> His fish restaurant is near the ocean. >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:19 AM, gleki wrote: >> >>> OK. So imagine that one restaurant is a fish restaurant. Another one is >>> a pancake restaurant. >>> >>> A fish one. >>> A pancake one. >>> >>> How do I refer do them in the following text ? >>> >>> Obviously English word "one" should correspond to {broda} or {ko'a}. How >>> do I achieve this ? >>> >>> >>> On Friday, March 9, 2012 10:32:21 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>>> >>>> You want the term ko'e to refer to the two restaurants collectively, >>>> you want {ko'e goi re gusta}, or {ko'e goi re le gusta} if you want to >>>> explicit about specificity. >>>> >>>> If you want to refer to them individually, I don't think that's >>>> possible with only one term. >>>> >>>> What you have means the pretty much same thing as what I wrote, >>>> although your ko'e assignment is different and your bridi is obviously much >>>> more complicated: >>>> ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta >>>> ko'a owns two of something that is amongst (ko'e = one or more things >>>> that actually is a restaraunt). >>>> Ko'a owns two things that are ko'e, where ko'e is "one or more >>>> restaraunts" >>>> >>>> ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta >>>> ko'a owns (ko'e = two restaraunts). >>>> ko'a owns ko'e, where ko'e is "two restaraunts" >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:13 PM, gleki wrote: >>>> >>>>> No ! What you suggest is that {ko'e} is two restaurants. But I need >>>>> {ko'e} to be each of the restaurants ! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, March 9, 2012 9:18:50 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I would go with {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta}. It seems to me you're >>>>>> overthinking it a tad. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 9:35 PM, gleki wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder how to express the phrase "he is the owner of two cafes" >>>>>>> using {ko'a} ("he") and {ko'e} (each of the cafes) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> {ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta} ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> {broda} series won't work if in the following text each of the cafes >>>>>>> is described. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/**ms**g/lojban-beginners/-/**kszrSxLem** >>>>>>> -wJ >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.* >>>>>>> ***com . >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**g**ooglegroups.com >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>>>> group**/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>> >>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/* >>>>> *msg/lojban-beginners/-/**QdVUwPSUNJkJ >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.** >>>>> com . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pxN0SfjwtLMJ. >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --e89a8f235177578b6e04bacada0b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another thing I nearly forgot to mention.

lo gusta =3D "one or = more things which actually is a restaurant" =3D "(a) restaurant(s= )"
re gusta =3D re lo gusta =3D "two things which actually are= restaurants" =3D "two restaurants".
re lo pa gusta =3D "one of two things (blah blah)" =3D "one = of two restaurants".
lo re gusta =3D "two of one or more thing= s (blah blah)" =3D "two of X restaurants", where X is an uns= tated number.

In PA1 lo PA2 broda, PA1 is the number of things, PA2 is how many of PA= 1 we're currently talking about.

I just wanted to mention that b= ecause you originally wrote {ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta}= .

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Jonathan Jo= nes <eyeonus@gmai= l.com> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:46 A= M, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
If you wanted to refer to them individually, as far as I am aware, you'= d have to either call them directly ({le finpe gusta} and {le pinynabycerni= gusta) (Note: There's no current valsi I know of for pancake. I'm = using "flat breakfast bread" for it.)), or assign them individual= ly.

I suppose you could say something like {le finpe me ko'e}. Although= that sounds ugly to me, I believe it would work for either your or my assi= gnment of ko'e, the difference being that your assignment of ko'e w= ould make {le finpe me ko'e} refer to a fish restaraunt out of the set = of all existing restaraunts, whereas my ko'e would make it refer to a f= ish restaraunt out of the set of two restaraunts, regardless of how many ex= ist.

Now that I think about it, I think the best assignment for ko'e wou= ld be {ko'e goi re ko'a gusta}, since you are wanting to talk about= HIS two restaraunts.

So, with all that in mind, my best guess would= be:

ko'a ponse ko'e goi re ko'a gusta
ko'a owns ko'e= , where ko'e is his two restaurants.
ko'a owns two restaurants.<= br>
.i lo finpe me ko'e vi zvati lo xamsi
The fish type-of ko'= ;e is near the ocean.

Sorry, that should be "The fish type-of th= ings-which-are-ko'e is near the ocean."
=A0
His fish restaurant is near the ocean.


On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:19 AM, gleki <gleki.= is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
OK. So imagine that one restaurant is a fish= restaurant. Another one is a pancake restaurant.

A fish= one.
A pancake one.

How do I refer do them=A0in th= e following text ?

Obviously English word &quo= t;one" should correspond to {broda} or {ko'a}. How do I achieve th= is ?


On Friday, March 9, 2012 10:32:21 AM UTC+4, aionys = wrote:
You want the term ko'e to= refer to the two restaurants collectively, you want {ko'e goi re gusta= }, or {ko'e goi re le gusta} if you want to explicit about specificity.=

If you want to refer to them individually, I don't think that's= possible with only one term.

What you have means the pretty much same thing as what I wrote, althoug= h your ko'e assignment is different and your bridi is obviously much mo= re complicated:
ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta
ko'= a owns two of something that is amongst (ko'e =3D one or more things th= at actually is a restaraunt).
Ko'a owns two things that are ko'e, where ko'e is "one or = more restaraunts"

ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta
ko= 9;a owns (ko'e =3D two restaraunts).
ko'a owns ko'e, where k= o'e is "two restaraunts"

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:13 PM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
No ! What you suggest is that {ko'e} is two restaurants. But I need {ko= 'e} to be each of the restaurants !


On Frid= ay, March 9, 2012 9:18:50 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
I would go with {ko'a ponse ko'e goi re gusta}. It seems to me you&= #39;re overthinking it a tad.

On Thu, Mar= 8, 2012 at 9:35 PM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
I wonder how to express the phrase "he = is the owner of two cafes" using {ko'a} ("he") and {ko&#= 39;e} (each of the cafes)

{ko'a ponse lo re me ko'e goi lo gusta} ?
=
{broda} series won't work if in the following text each = of the cafes is described.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/kszrSxLem-w= J.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= u>
group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'= e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. m= i patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<= br>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/QdVUwPSUNJkJ.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pxN0SfjwtLMJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e&#= 39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--e89a8f235177578b6e04bacada0b--